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Between Realms/Dimensions Discussion
By Earthwalker
A lot of you have been
responding to me at length and probably getting somewhat frustrate
with me. Please remember the semantics of these realms are somewhat
foreign to me. I have given a lot of thought to the words of
Doc and Silver Eagle (Connections) as well as Cinnamon and Lune
and probably could accept their thoughts (Doc and Silver Eagle)
if I could solve what I'll call the linkage between realms.
Let me try to explain.
Premises:
1.)Simple expressed, in the physical realm, the responses generated
by a stimulus of any kind (the cause) yields a corresponding
effect (result) on an organism. This reaction occurs in the
dimension of linear time.
2.)In the spiritual realms, a form(s)
of pure energy (undefined) exists. It exists in a dimension
of timelessness; therefore the laws of cause and effect do not
apply. Since there is no time dimension there cannot be a reaction
without a stimulus; only an equilibrium between existing states
of energy can exist. In other words, the realm of spirit needs
a stimulus from the physical realm to change its state of equilibrium.
3.)The spiritual realm can therefore
only cause an effect in linear time by interacting in a mechanical
way [probably as a catalysis] in-acting a change in the physical.
Alternatively the physical realm can cause a change in the equilibrium
of the spiritual realm which it cannot do without such a linkage
due to the timelessness in the spiritual realm.
I have a few questions I am struggling
with.
Can anyone help or have you read
or heard of anything in regards to the above or the following
questions.
Thoughts/questions:
What is the mechanism/linkage of this interaction or catalysis
between realms (energy to physical or physical to energy)? If
the mechanism is through an interaction of the energy imbedded
in physical entities what level is it at? The elemental, the
molecular, the cellular, the organism or the species? This may
be partly answered by where spirit interactions in the physical
realm can occur. From a shamanic perspective, interactions occur,
I believe, at all levels where life exits (species/ organism/
cellular).
Can interaction occur with non-living
matter (stones, earth, etc.) without a primary connection to
another physical entity with spirit being the intermediary?
If so then the action could be at either the elemental or molecular
level. If not what level of consciousness does the living organism
need to possess to be able to tap into the spiritual realm?
If energy/spirit can shapeshift and enter other areas and physically
change the location of items etc. what connection needs to be
on the other end? For this to occur there must be some type
of physical interaction between the spirit energy and the object
or object energy.
If this is true, this just answered
in part my above question since if you can move a non-living
object purely from the spiritual
dimension then the mechanism of action must be at the molecular
or elemental level. However, this would be true only if another
connection is not being made to a living species in another
location of the physical realm connected through the spiritual
realm. What I am looking for is what is the physical /energy
or mechanism of change occurring in the physical realm to link
to the spirit world and physical world or worlds in other dimensions.
If this one link could be defined or made known it would clarify
so much and answers the question of portals, shapeshifting,
journeying etc. I know that there are theories out there which
suggest that long term memory actual resides in a universal
field of energy but still the theories do not define the linkage
from the physical entity to this universal memory bank or dimension
other than to define a god spot in the right temporal lobe.
If anyone has thoughts or ideas please
let me know. I know and believe in Shamanism but I also know
that there also has to be change at the physical level to gain
access to other realms of spirit etc. I would love to understand
as well as believe.
Northernwolf:
Will
and intent.
Earthwalker:
Nothernwolf, Thanks! It does make sense. Will and intent are
definitely links. Wouldn't it be nice if we could will matter
(like the dirt in my house) to just dissipate into energy(s).
Cinnamon, Thank for all your time addressing this and I apologize
for bringing up a pet peeve. There are many things in science
that cannot be validated either. The technology simply is not
sophisticated enough to answer the question. I don't have a
problem with anyone indicating that the answer is not known.
From my perspective, belief systems
(religions, shamanism etc.) became so much easier to understand
once I learned (as a child) the basic science premise that energy
can neither be created or destroyed only changed. This fits
in completely with your discussion on source energy. I just
simply posed a simpler model than your discussion. My lack of
understanding reside in realms were past and present and probable
future co-exist. Given current theory in that dimension cause
and effect without an external source cannot occur. I think
the point I missed is that the total state of energy is in constant
change yielding the outside stimulus that permits change in
those realms. Matter is simply tightly packed cells of energy
(stone being more dense than a feather) etc. Realms with differing
density is easy to understand. I left multiple realms out of
the original premise to simplify the discussion. Brainwaves
/ energy have a corresponding biochemical change effecting the
brain amine levels etc.
This is probably the link I was looking
for. I will take you advise and explore more fully the answers
from the spirit guides that seem to be coming to me. I appreciate
your answer and honesty. Have a peaceful journey. I will take
you advise and explore more fully the answers from the spirit
guides that seem to be coming to me. I appreciate your answer
and honesty. Have a peaceful journey.
Cinnamon:
I
was not unhappily challenged by your question. Science itself
is not my basis for things as I take to the spiritual explanations
easier and they make "sense" to me more so than Science
does. I may grumble about it but it's just me and nothing to
do with the individual asking. Please don't think this was a
problem, I just approached it from my perspectives. I need to
go through this from time to time anyway. LOL.
As for
bringing up pet peeves, that's all they are, things that rub
you wrong and I think we all have them. My tendency is to sidetrack
with them though and then I get on a soapbox I shouldn't publicly
stand on. So I just reference it as a peeve and let it go. (It
makes my lengthy blustering posts much shorter believe it or
not!)
It's actually
quite reassuring to me that Science has it's grey areas of understanding
too.
"I
think the point I missed is that the total state of energy is
in constant change yielding the outside stimulus that permits
change in those realms.
"
Yes! And you put it in a much nicer nutshell than I did too!
LOL
"Brainwaves
/ energy have a corresponding biochemical change effecting the
brain amine levels etc. This is probably the link I was looking
for.
"
Well technical terms escape me, but I do know that the state
of mind has a very important function to all spiritual work
and the stronger the thought, vision, and focus are the better
you are able to work or communicate, journey or quest, etc.
That's enough for me to accept and move ahead. It's the method
that works for the individual in perceiving and we all have
our own way of doing that. Yours is just as valid as any other.
I try
to keep things very simple and let others expand where they
need to. I guess it's all just relative to who we are as individuals.
Whatever the triggers are, the fact remains that different states
of consciousness and different levels of energy exist and work
in harmony when you open to them.
"I
will take you advise and explore more fully the answers from
the spirit guides that seem to be coming to me. I appreciate
your answer and honesty. Have a peaceful journey. " Well
the reason I said that is because they do understand how your
particular thought processes work and can explain things much
better than I can. My attempt would look quite feeble to theirs
and I assure you they won't need analogy or lengthy explanations
like I do. LOL. I'm happy to try to help though and will always
do so when I can.
As for
my journey...well, that's so at peace right now that I'm skipping
down the road loving every step. I got my wings. *G* Thank you
for blessing it and perhaps ensuring part of that continuance
though. I appreciate that! Now let's see if
one of our more scientifically minded friends here can help
you out a lot more and shed more light than I could. I'm sure
one or all of them will.
Earthwalker:
Cinnamon, I believe the dream also
dealt with similar topic and I have been asking the black jaguar
for understanding.
I finally am beginning to understand.
It is all about the balance of energy. Blackness is nothing
the absence of color. White is the summation of all colors.
This was shown in the dream as a black jaguar with minor gray
spots; all other animals were white with tinges of gray. The
jaguars power was so dominant since it had to balance the multiple
white species present; once again creating an equilibrium between
all. Each of these white species represent the summation of
other multiple species / realms of all color with the summation
being white.
There are other meaning as well coming
from the dream but are of a more limited and personal nature
but again are being defined in the context of the balance of
power. Thank you for continuing
to force me to contact the spirits directly. This is the first
time I have understood how that can happen.
In addition this simple understanding
opens up the understanding of all many of the prophetic dreams
around the world.
Cinnamon:
Hello Earthwalker,
I just wanted to point out to you that in shamanic terms White
Animal Teachers come to us as Sacred Truths from Spirit representing
the highest essence of their species and wisdom. The Black Animal
Teachers represent the feminine perspective, Grandmother Moon,
Night, the stillness within us. That may help you a little too.
I hope so. Science is a masculine field in that it is an aggressive
path to validate with physical evidence. Spirituality is balanced
with the feminine...intuitive, guidance, stillness, feeling,
sensations, etc. So you were being told (again IMHO) to seek
balance in your perspective. Jaguar itself represents the feminine
and night. Magic and mystery. ~!^
Earthwalker:
Cinnamon, I agree with
the balance perspective and also agree with the comments you
have made that the spirit world would know how to answer questions
that I would understand.
Magic is defined as "conjuring
tricks and illusions that make apparently impossible things
seem to happen or supernatural power to make impossible things
happen" No spirit of integrity would ever approach me with
magic in mind. It is not a path that I would walk and leads
me to question the validness of the path for me. If magic, sorcery,
negative energy /spirits are the core of shamanism I have labeled
my path incorrectly. My view of shamanism is strictly from a
positive spiritualistic focus. Given people's reluctance to
be completely open and honest / unwillingness to post I am not
sure of my comfort level. From my perspective, tricks, games,
negativity is inefficient and a complete waste of time. This
is not to judge, just to say it is not my way and one which
I could never accept.
However, I do thank-you for all of
your insights and opening up the world of Shamanism to me. Continue
to walk in peace and love.
CinnamonMoon:
***Note***
For some reason the edit function is messing up on me and I'm
having to combine posts by this method. I apologize for the
format, please keep reading.
Hi Earthwalker,
I'm enjoying our conversations a lot.
I'm glad
to hear you are comfortable knowing that the spirit world would
understand your way of thinking and adapt to it. When I referenced
"magic" it was not in the negative sense of the word,
that comes from the individual's intent. What I mean by magic
are the unexplained events that follow working with energy and
Spirit Helpers (whatever form they may take). In that context
the unknown (to the untrained) appears to be magical when understanding
makes it simply reality. Conjuring tricks and illusions...that's
stage magic and has nothing to do with what I was indicating
at all. That's why you often find it spelled "magick"
to differentiate the two.
"No
spirit of integrity would ever approach me with magic in mind.
It is not a path that I would walk and leads me to question
the validness of the path for me."
I agree,
and if you are dealing with such entities you are dealing with
High Ceremonial Magic or Sorcery. It's not my path either.
Shamanic
practice, as in all paths, has both the Dark and Light side
to it. It's the individual walking that path that dictates the
results of their journey and that through the choices they make.
The Dark path eats us from the inside out and destroys. The
Light path nurtures, and lets the love of Spirit shine through
us to improve lives. It's choice. I would not say you have labeled
anything incorrectly.
"My
view of shamanism is strictly from a positive spiritualistic
focus."
Mine too,
and all who gather here as well.
"Given
people's reluctance to be completely open and honest / unwillingness
to post I am not sure of my comfort level.
"
Are you talking about here at Spirit Lodge? If so I don't think
you should take that personally. I tend to cover a lot of ground
when I post and if others think I have covered something they
would have said they may not post and repeat it. There are some
who won't be able to address your comments, many here are just
beginning their paths or have reached intermediate levels too
so they may not understand what you are looking for in answering
a post. I've been on my path for over 35 years and you can see
that it took us awhile to understand one another and we're still
working on that so please don't take any silence here personally.
It just means people are away, feel the question was answered,
or don't know what to say. You'll hear from all of us eventually
*S*.
"However,
I do thank-you for all of your insights and opening up the world
of Shamanism to me. Continue to walk in peace and love.
"
That's what Spirit Lodge is for, not simply the shamanistic
views but all paths and we honor each and every one here. No
path is "wrong", no path is "right", they
are there for those that gravitate to that perspective. We need
them all...at least for now. It's a pleasure getting to know
you and I hope you'll find many of your answers here or at least
a good finger pointing you in the right directions to locate
them. I look forward to your posts and I'm sure others do too.
We have many who visit and never post, but they learn from reading
them and if that's what they need that's fine too. This is a
place to gather thoughts, pose questions, share, and enjoy the
company of like (and different) minds. Do keep posting, Earthwalker,
there are many who may be benefitting by what you have to say
behind the scenes, and certainly up front too.
Ghostkatt:
Hi Earthwalker...nice to meet you! Sorry
I haven't been answering your posts…I've been under the
weather this past week, so haven't done any posting. *smiles*
I can't pretend to have any
answers you're looking for...but I can share my opinions with
you for what they're worth.
Premise one I agree with...
Premise two...are you stating that Spirit is just pure mindless
energy, unable to interact independent of physical stimulation...personally
I know that Spirit acts in my world independent of my stimulating
it to do so...with no direction from the conscious or physical
level to do so. I was gifted by a journey with my Guide...who
took me through the tree of life and showed me for a brief moment
what it is like to exist in a timeless place...past, present,
future are all occurring...it blew my mind frankly. I'm not
ready for that...I don't think any human is at this point in
our evolution. We place the limits of time on ourselves because
we just aren't equipped yet to handle more. Can I ask this,
how do you see our Guides then? Are They Spirit hanging in limbo
waiting for us to will them into our lives? *smiles*
I think the catalyst between realms
is will and desire...both ours and Spirit. I do truly believe
that Spirit is completely independent...It moves to it's own
rhythms and patterns...it's the desire to help us on our journey
that brings a merging or joining of man and Spirit.
How do you define living?
For me there is a connection to earth...rocks...crystals...plants...animals...trees...the
air...etc., etc...they all have Spirit...it takes patience and
a willingness to quiet yourself and just be in order to hear
them...animals you get a quick response, humans even quicker...crystals...depends
on the age and type of crystal and what it's vibrational levels
are...fire...likes me far too much for my comfort level and
responds very quickly! LOL! I'm not sure if this is what you're
wondering about? I don't require my Guides to talk with them...there
is no intermediary. I do find this easier though if I am at
least in Alpha state, if not lower. That's part of the reason
so many different cultures use a particular drum beat...it helps
to induce Alpha state.
In regards to the black Jaguar...I
don't know much about the Incan Medicine path...but I do know
someone here that studies it, and I know that they work extensively
with Black Jaguar medicine.
I think that if Jaguar had approached
you with negative intents, you would have figured that out pretty
quick! In my experience, Cats are not the type to just sit around
and let you guess what They want! Sounds like he was sizing
you up...the fact that he relaxed towards the end sounds like
he thinks you are worthy! LOL!
As for Shamanism and it's various paths...like
anything, there's good and bad to it...you have to look for
the path that calls to you. Native Americans are not the only
Shamans...there are Shamans in Peru, Mexico, the Rainforests,
Australia, Brazil, Siberia...they share similar traits, and
then there are some very big differences. I think you need to
listen to what your heart is telling you about it...open to
Spirit and follow the trail that opens before you. Study some
of the different paths if they interest you...you're seeking,
this is a good thing...and I know that there is something out
there that will totally ring true for you...you will feel it
in every fiber of being...you will "know" it like
nothing you've ever known before...it will become a part of
your life, your day to day activities...I hope that you do continue
to ask questions here and that you do keep seeking. Thanks for
the questions...I hope I was able to answer you, at least from
my perspective anyhow!
Earthwalker:
Cinnamon, Thank you for commenting and I am sure I will post
at least occasionally, I do like your openness. I apologize
for getting so frustrated but you hit on one of my pet peeves.
To me most if not all religions /
spiritual practices keep their following by conjuring up negative
“fear “ factors. They are hidden behinds words like
dark spirit, devils, fallen angels and are always shrouded under
the cloak of mystery and magic, the unknown or the forbidden.
Your comment just hit a nerve along with prior postings not
to discuss closing of portals and comments insinuating that
these negative things cannot be talked about on the web site
only open or behind closed doors.
You may have perfectly good reasons
and legitimate reasons for not addressing negativity on the
web-site and it is your web-site. Quite frankly, I personally
wouldn’t want that to become a main topic either. I was
just disappointed in the chosen terms: mystery, magic in comments
to me in regards to the black jaguar. I realize after reading
your comment that in reality they were just semantic terms;
yet, to me they conjure up all that I distrust and hate.
As a child, I wasn’t allow
to have my palm read (evil spirits reside there). As an 18 year
old I finally found a friend who was “psychic” and
was involved in research; before class several us were having
fun reading everyone palm; she wouldn’t read mine nor would
comment why. In either case, the simple truths would have been
far superior then what I imagined. It certainly didn’t
leave scars since these were meant to be fun but the cloak of
mystery remained; honesty would have been much more positive.
My personal feeling is that whenever
facts are hidden and not thoroughly discussed, you give life
to the fear and in fact create the monster out your thought
processes and imagination. Negative entities are generated by
our own mind, and the willingness of people to allow misconceptions
to go unresolved, undisclosed, and not disputed or challenged.
This may help ensure the survival of the religion, group, unit,
country, but ends up hindering the individual and is a lie if
not by conveyance by abstinence. In the past, survival of the
group, tribe etc. was of foremost importance and therefore these
types of conditionings may have been appropriate. Today I feel
they are inappropriate. I believe in truth, love and honesty
in all walks of life and don’t ascribe to the concept that
“we know but the masses cannot understand”. It seems
to me that governments operate under that premise. As an example
(one currently being written about in contemporary literature),
how many individuals in the USA know that the Federal Reserve
is owned, not by the US government, but individual banks. The
thought process is the “masses do not need or want to know”.
Most organized religions have similar
perspectives “we know the truth, just believe, just follow
or else you will be at the mercy of the dark spirit, devil or
fallen angels. By cloaking things under these disguises without
discussion, understanding, and clear admission of what is unknown
and known, the individuals / the sheep are kept close because
of the fear that is conveyed which has often become all-encompassing
due the power of imagination. These fears are what causes the
differences and hate between groups, religions and entities.
If only we could teach the universal truths that are common
to all religions and see and respect that which is similar.
To me the only way to obtain this outcome is through respect
and understanding and full disclosure of the unknowns that are
common in all areas of life including religion of all denominations.
The avenue to that is through open discussion and bringing forth
all fear / negativity so that it can properly be dissipated.
I was disappointed and frustrated
finding the same semantics once again. It is so hard to make
positive change when most people focus upon is the differences
and conjure up these as being evil. I acknowledge that it is
not my responsibility to change others truths but by nature
I am an activator and frustrated by the web we entangled ourselves
in disguised under the cloak of mystery. I rather focus on love
as often depicted by white light; openness and all encompassing.
White consists of all colors. Black the opposite of white should
not connote negativity. The opposite of white is black, the
absence of all color. I often wonder which is pure spirit? I
don’t know. But I think the two combined would equate to
the total, since neither could exist without the other. Yet
one (is all) the other is absence of; not positive (good) and
negative (evil). These are manmade interpretations. In the field
of electrochemistry a current is carried from positive to negative;
neither pole is good or evil, both are needed for the current
to exist.
Ghostkatt, I wasn’t concerned
about anyone not commenting upon the more scientific issues/
ramblings. I carry on about these things often and am use to
being ignored; that doesn’t bother me in the least. I do
however appreciate your note. I hope you are feeling better.
CinnamonMoon:
This post is
a mind-bender for me since I don’t come from a scientific
background and don’t speak in those terms comfortably.
With this in mind I’ll address the issues as best I can
in layman’s terms.
Before
I address your comments, I just want to say that the linkage
between the realms exists because they are found within the
context of the physical dimension as well as outside it. It’s
all One and this is why we refer (shamanically) to the Web of
Life which permeates all dimensions. It’s why we see the
Medicine Wheel, a structure in the physical sense of the word
but also in the spiritual sense, as a *vehicle* to take us between
the realms.
I believe
some of your confusion stems from the tangibility of the physical
laws to the intangibility of the spiritual laws, and each dimension
functions on its own set of those laws according to its nature.
We utilize the portals as links to the different realms; be
they natural, manmade, or within ourselves. This said, I’m
going to humbly attempt to address your issues, and note that
I think Silver Eagle, Lune, as well as Ghostkatt are all better
qualified than I am to address the scientific perspectives.
This will
be long as I’m going to be quoting you to respond properly
and in the flow of your own comments.
You stated:
Premises:
"1.)Simple expressed, in the physical realm, the
responses generated by a stimulus of any kind (the cause) yields
a corresponding effect (result) on an organism. This reaction
occurs in the dimension of linear time."
Yes. This is the law of cause, effect, and retribution (result).
"2.)In
the spiritual realms, a form(s) of pure energy (undefined) exists.
It exists in a dimension of timelessness; therefore the laws
of cause and effect do not apply."
Contrary to what you are perceiving here, and granted that the
spiritual realm is not ruled by time, time does play a part
there. Past, present, and future are One it's simply not linear
as we know it. Cause, effect, and retribution *do* apply in
each dimension. Each dimension is populated by entities just
as the physical world is and there are events there just as
here.
From a
higher perspective the creative force of energy that feeds it
all is that of Spirit and like the human body with it’s
various energies comprised of a whole, the universe and dimensional
worlds react much the same. "Since there is no time dimension
there cannot be a reaction without a stimulus; only an equilibrium
between existing states of energy can exist. In other words,
the realm of spirit needs a stimulus from the physical realm
to change its state of equilibrium." I would argue this
based on the Will of Spirit and the activities of the Spirit
Teachers, Guides, and Guardians that work with us. Their worlds
are just as real as ours, perhaps less dense (tangible) but
just as valid nevertheless. They function independently from
us, much as involuntary muscles of the body do, but they are
One with us as well and thus the laws of physics (IMHO) are
present throughout, perhaps shifting perspectives some from
time to time, but there are natural laws to all dimensions just
as there are here. It’s not a vacuum. Think of the different
layers of air surrounding earth. We've named them, we know they
exist, but the average person isn't going to separate them like
a scientist would. They are all part of Air, but not the same,
like the dimensions vary in their own ways, but are part of
the whole of All Dimensions...Spirit.
"3.)The
spiritual realm can therefore only cause an effect in linear
time by interacting in a mechanical way [probably as a catalysis]
in-acting a change in the physical. Alternatively the physical
realm can cause a change in the equilibrium of the spiritual
realm which it cannot do without such a linkage due to the timelessness
in the spiritual realm."
Shamanic teachings will all express the primary truth that all
things are seeded in spirit before they manifest in the physical
sense. That’s why we work so extensively in the spirit
realms. Things seeded there are the birth of all Medicine Work/or
spell-weaving, or whatever term you prefer to apply as a term.
When we work "magick" we work spiritually. "
Thoughts/questions:
What is
the mechanism /linkage of this interaction or catalysis between
realms (energy to physical or physical to energy)?
"
The Self (inner spirit) and our Will/Intent.
"If
the mechanism is through an interaction of the energy imbedded
in physical entities what level is it at? The elemental, the
molecular, the cellular, the organism or the species?"
I would
say all the above depending on the extent of work being done,
and the training the individual has undergone. The elemental
forces are often called into play along with their entities
after a relationship is initiated and established. Thus the
teaching of the Seven Sacred Directions one at a time will prepare
the student to unify them and work within that context. The
molecular and cellular comes into play where shapeshifting,
projection of the inner spirit, journey work, passage through
veils/portals, etc. are concerned. The organism comes into play
as direct results manifest from a distance (as in healing or
effecting change in the physical sense). The species…humanity
itself…has a direct link to Spirit, the Creator, and in
this way We Are All Related, all parts of the whole, all part
of the Web of Life and we have our own strands that are interwoven.
Try to
imagine this as encompassed in an enormous spiritual body. We
are the cells that have jobs to do and we dwell upon one of
the internal organs (planets). The universe is a macrocosm and
a microcosm just as we are. There are worlds within worlds.
Science can’t explain fully what black holes are. They
are out in space, we have known them to exist without explanation
for a long time. Does that make them any less *real*? No. They
could be portals, which I suspect, in their own right…perhaps
the veins of Spirit’s body? Who’s to say fully? Does
it need to be scientifically validated or explained before it
can be accepted? This has always been a pet peeve of mine. I
can’t scientifically explain how the Wind reacts to my
requests, but it does and I can accept that based on the results
I get. I can't scientifically explain my Totems and Guides other
than relying on what Jung has said and that's only his theory
or his way of semantical explanation. It’s enough for me
to experience this repeatedly and I don’t need to define
it further getting hung up on that. I simply accept it as *my*
reality and work with it. We each have our own reality as well,
and that’s part of the physical illusion. You see we are
the witness, in the physical sense, and our inner spirit is
the one with a purpose to convey so we can fulfill it. When
we see ourselves as such we learn a great deal more than when
we fight that concept. IMHO
"This
may be partly answered by where spirit interactions in the physical
realm can occur. From a shamanic perspective, interactions occur,
I believe, at all levels where life exits (species/organism/
cellular)."
Pretty
much, yes.
"Can
interaction occur with non-living matter (stones, earth, etc.)
without a primary connection to another physical entity with
spirit being the intermediary? If so then the action could be
at either the elemental or molecular level. If not what level
of consciousness does the living organism need to possess to
be able to tap into the spiritual realm?"
Oh yes.
Mountains, the land itself, and stones (The Stone People), trees
and plants (The Standing People and Green Growing Things), Mother
Earth and minerals…all are alive. They have their own energy,
and inner spirits. They may process thought faster or slower
than we do, in more complex or simpler terms than we do. That’s
why there are teachings that the student can follow to learn
to communicate with them…to enter the Silence of Spirit
and learn those languages, perspectives, and wisdoms. Think
of the work done with crystals, spiritually and physically they
have energy that permeates all dimensions. Nothing in the physical
realm is truly solid, it’s all molecular, and thus has
the capability of passing through the dimensions with it’s
presence—or the dimensions can penetrate physical "matter"
by passing *through* the spaces between molecules....solid objects.
I have
stepped into what I call Source Energy (that which comes from
the universe and Spirit in the creative aspect, the Life Force,
and I have ridden it through dimensional realms. I’ve watched
it come (an energy signature) and pass through solid walls making
them transparent. It’s awesome to see but, unless you experience
it, quite difficult to grasp in concept. It’s just that
here energy takes form and appears much denser. The physical
realm is all about illusion and breaking through that with spiritual
perspectives, then returning to it to serve others and effect
positive changes for the Higher Good. Personal experience validates
many things science cannot explain.
"If
energy/spirit can shapeshift and enter other areas and physically
change the location of items etc. what connection needs to be
on the other end?"
Intent/Will
and the knowledge of how to do this.
"For
this to occur there must be some type of physical interaction
between the spirit energy and the object or object energy."
There are
dimensions that mirror ours, and when we enter those we can
move something that way with our spirit body and thus move it
in the physical sense where it is mirrored. It’s very often
one of the first exercises given students learning to astral
project. Often things are brought back to the physical world
on accident or intentionally as well. Some people feel that
there are times things fall from the air termed "apports"
as gifts from the spirit world.
"If
this is true, this just answered in part my above question since
if you can move a non-living object purely from the spiritual
dimension then the mechanism of action must be at the molecular
or elemental level. However, this would be true only if another
connection is not being made to a living species in another
location of the physical realm connected through the spiritual
realm."
"Time
is relevant here, in the spirit realms we can move backward,
along the present, or into the future. That’s not something
that would prevent such an act from happening but would allow
it to happen regardless of what is currently taking place. Again,
this takes training to understand and experience to master.
It’s advanced work and you are coming to this from a beginning
standpoint. It’s like teaching someone to multiply and
divide and them asking the teacher how a matrix works. They
don’t have the training to understand that yet so it will
all be foreign to their mind until they do. You can present
part of the theory but it’s only information at that point.
It takes
experience to know something and that knowledge comes down the
line yet. So you are a bit ahead of yourself in the way you
are approaching these issues, but I understand it is your perspective
to take the scientific approach which reqires all the analysis
you are undergoing. I'm not critical of that. It's your way
and for you it's right. But you are ahead of yourself in study
needing more basics from what I can see here. I don't mean that
offensively, but there are huge gaps in your perceptions that
need filling in from what I perceive.
"What
I am looking for is what is the physical /energy or mechanism
of change occurring in the physical realm to link to the spirit
world and physical world or worlds in other dimensions. If this
one link could be defined or made known it would clarify so
much and answers the question of portals, shapeshifting, journeying
etc.
"
I hope I have somewhat accomplished that already here. It truly
is all One and just different aspects of the whole. As I said
earlier, this "spirit body" of dimensional realms
functions as aspects to the whole, and thus are One body.
"I
know that there are theories out there which suggest that long
term memory actual resides in a universal field of energy but
still the theories do not define the linkage from the physical
entity to this universal memory bank or dimension other than
to define a god spot in the right temporal lobe."
Energy
carries information. It stores it, just as DNA and cells of
the body do.
"If
anyone has thoughts or ideas please let me know. I know and
believe in Shamanism but I also know that there also has to
be change at the physical level to gain access to other realms
of spirit etc. I would love to understand as well as believe."
The various
states of the mind (brain waves can be traced) take us into
many different levels of trance from light to extremely deep.
Once these "states of mind" are achieved we are capable
of doing different things on spiritual levels and our inner
spirit takes over where the physical body cannot. It has the
capability to traverse the dimensional realms because it is
pure energy. We need to realize that we are spirits with bodies,
not bodies with spirits. That simple altered perspective puts
a whole new twist on things and brings understanding. When we
surrender control to our inner spirit it is free to guide us
through life and our pathwork. It’s our direct link to
everything. When it leaves the body it does not die, it continues
on in its own life. This world is a temporary stop for lessons,
a classroom if you will, and it’s up to us to be willing
to accept that as our truth. If we do we embrace it and move
relatively quickly along our way. If we struggle with it we
can stagnate, and if we ignore it totally or refuse to accept
it we waste this life in many ways. In that sense we are our
own Witness to our own Life and our own Reality working with
others (Guides, Totems, Spirit Helpers, Guardians, Protectors,
Teachers, etc. as well as spirit groups.) who are there to help
us understand. This in mind, and knowing you have contact with
such entities in your own experience, I would like to challenge
you to address these questions to them and see what they tell
you. You may be surprised at how simple that understanding is
because they know *you* how you think, process information,
and assimilate things and can put it in terms *you* will understand
with greater enlightenment and less effort than any human can.
I
hope this helps in some small way.
earthwalker:
GHostkatt, Your comments may have
a lot of meaning I just need to think about them. It’s
been a long day. I would very much like to see and feel that
world you were taken to even if we aren't ready. Maybe someday
that will be the path, I am just unsure for now. The concept
of negative spirit etc. just don't make since to me since if
spirit guides are there to show you the way they would never
be negative in approach. Thanks for writing.
Cinnamon:
Hello Earthwalker,
I was *not* trying to use a fear factor as they are my pet peeve
in teachings too and I think they are unnecessary. I'm sorry
if I came off that way. However, I do know firsthand that there
are *dark* spirits or *negative* entities. I've come face to
face with them and it tested every ounce of inner strength and
courage I had on more than one occasion. It's not simply a fear
tactic to not discuss them. However, I'm not going to encourage
that exploration by inept seekers who haven't a clue as to the
dangers they are getting into and there are dangers out there.
That's just a fact. To think otherwise is no better than thinking
ignorance is bliss and I can't condone that either. They are
real. We don't know who is reading the posts here, but we do
know that our age span of members is from grade school on up.
How much of this is appropriate and how much is for the field
day? Well, personally I'm not having a field day with this subject
knowing they may be reading things out of context with nothing
concrete to base their opinions on and sorely misled in that
process. Maybe that's a false fear of mine, but I think it's
a very real issue and I'd rather error on the side of caution
there. I'm a mother and a grandmother myself and that's important
to me, so are many others here, and their families come here
to learn.
If someone
wants to label an entity as "dark spirit", "devil",
"fallen angel" or anything else along those lines
it's merely a matter of semantics, but there are beings beyond
the physical world that are not nice and they do cross the lines
of dimension from time to time. Why do you think the Church
has rites for exorcism? This is one of the reasons for *Shielding*
ourselves, for maintaining the highest thoughts we can as they
are attracted and feed off the energy of those with lower, more
selfish, more greedy thoughts. If someone is seeking their path
for the purpose of power over others they are going to meet
these entities face to face sooner or later. So by keeping your
intentions for the higher good the odds are that you will not
run into them. Teach only the higher good and you teach with
tunnel vision. Even in that you'll find situations where confrontations
occur with such entities. Teaching both is important, but in
the right context of that teaching (IMHO).
Spirituality
is not all black and white, it has grey areas too and we all
tend to weave back and forth from time to time just being humans
and having faults. There is a cloak of mystery around the *Dark
Path* of any religion or spiritual tradition, most people don't
want to deal with those things, and those that do deal with
them keep those methods to themselves for a reason...it's dangerous
work. Magic*K* is the unknown, once you understand it the mystery
is gone. Magick is working with energy, but once you understand
the process, the patterns, the sources, the mystery is gone.
To the uninitiated it's all phenomenal...unexplained...unknown...scary...weird...strange...occult.
When I
said that I would not publicly discuss closing portals insinuating
that these negative things cannot be talked about on the web
site only on em or behind closed doors you bet I had good reasons.
There are people of all ages and levels here, some post, some
just come and read. We have hundreds of visitors a day. I'm
responsible for what I put on my posts and I'll be darned if
I'm going to give information about such matters (matters that
take highly advanced knowledge to contend with in the first
place) into the hands of children or even young adults who haven't
a clue as to what they are really looking at along those lines.
It's careless and irresponsible. I do discuss these matters
openly with my students and in private, but not here. I think
it's highly inappropriate.
I will
openly discuss negativity, the concepts of negative entities
(in fact we have articles on that subject matter in our Knowledge
Center), but to discuss techniques for confronting them or how
to find them or how to banish them or how to close their portals
or anything along those lines is feeding trouble into inexperienced
hands. This site is designed to help people find their way to
the path that's right for them. It's designed to help people
find their way to Spirit, not encourage reckless explorations
that could lead to trouble and possibly some serious psychological
damage. As I said there are elementary school children that
come here and read the posts as well as adults and we need to
be responsible with the information we share. So it's my preference
to have people that are addressing *dark* issues do so in private.
I hope that makes sense to you. I want the site to remain positive
and productive, not one that has witch-wars or attracting the
attention of those who choose to walk a Dark Path in any tradition.
It's just not so simple as everything being black and white
and to think along those lines is deceiving yourself.
The terms:
mystery, magic, etc. are only semantics here. With this many
paths brought together there are going to be many terms used
to describe the same issues and as you get used to talking in
a group like this you'll start to differentiate them. If you
look for the Black Jaguar in any books that interpret the animals
you will find that those terms are quite commonly associated
with it. Not in a negative sense, but certainly the teachings
of Jaguar could be used in negative ways. That's the individual's
choice, it's their intentions that differentiate the path they
walk and the deeds they do just as it is our intentions in anything
we do or say.
I realize
that many parents, as yours did, forbid their children to partake
of the *occult* or any sort of non-traditional path. It's not
quite as bad today as it was when I was growing up, but it still
exists, especially in the Bible-belt areas here in America.
Metaphysical studies are deeply frowned upon and I have several
friends that have to struggle against those antiquated notions
daily. It doesn't mean that they are right, but they believe
they are and intend to enforce those beliefs on themselves and
others. We force nothing here.
As for
your psychic friend that refused to read you, she may have seen
something that frightened her or that she didn't understand,
but I agree, it would have been better to tell you something
about that. It's hard. I read for people professionally and
no one likes to pass on bad news. When I see trouble coming
at people I warn them about it but in a way that's constructive.
"You need to think about changing your way of doing this
or that, if you don't it looks like trouble could be waitng
and it's up to you do avoid that now." Or "Have you
been feeling poorly? Perhaps you should see a doctor and have
a physical, it seems that there could be something brewing now
that if caught in time will help you avoid being ill later."
That type of thing rather than predicting certainty of a bad
situation. I don't hold with doom and gloom. Inexperienced readers
will see things and feel they are carved in stone, or mean the
worst when they are simply issues that, if acted upon now, can
be avoided. Your friend was more than likely inexperienced in
this.
"My
personal feeling is that whenever facts are hidden and not thoroughly
discussed, you give life to the fear and in fact create the
monster out your thought processes and imagination."
Perhaps
in some cases that's true, but understanding why we don't discuss
this type of thing out of context of teaching some lesson, it
does (hopefully) shed better light on things and validate why
we choose to be cautious.
"Negative
entities are generated by our own mind, and the willingness
of people to allow misconceptions to go unresolved, undisclosed,
and not disputed or challenged. This may help ensure the survival
of the religion, group, unit, country, but ends up hindering
the individual and is a lie if not by conveyance by abstinence."
Here I
have to disagree with you. I know there are entities/spirits
and not all of them are good ones. I know and work with Spirit
Guides constantly, I have all my life, and thinking that these
entities exist only in our minds is foolish. IMHO. Yes, in the
past, survival of the group, tribe etc. was of foremost importance
and these types of conditionings did serve a purpose as every
venture out of the camp was a risk. Even today, in places like
South America, shamanic teachings are given based on fear...fear
of evil, of negative entities, of abusing magick, of those who
would steal yours, of death hanging over your left shoulder
ready to claim you at any moment. Some people work from that
premise. I don't take that approach, that's my choice, but many
do and they find value in it. It doesn't sit well with me either
but it is their way and I have to give tolerance for it. I don't
have to take that path, however, and that is my choice.
"I
believe in truth, love and honesty in all walks of life and
don’t ascribe to the concept that “we know but the
masses cannot understand”....I wasn't trying to imply that
at all and if someone wants this kind of information I'll email
with them or suggest a source to explore it. Michael Harner
deals with this quite a bit in his teaching. Castaneda dealt
with it, I'm not sure if you are familiar with Crowley, but
he walked a path of Light and switched to a Dark one along the
way. It destroyed him dealing with the spirits he conjured and
the greed he fed on to gain more power.
I understand
that many religions teach the masses one thing and the clergy
another. I also understand why. The clergy has been trained
to understand those teachings, the masses have not. Most of
those in the masses couldn't comprehend the heightened awareness
necessary to achieve that understanding. It comes from training
and from experience. In shamanic circles, children with gifts
are recognized young, trained, and prepared for their role in
life. In the Church it is the priest that is Called to his role,
schooled in areas that the public has no access to. If someone
wants those teachings they need to attend seminary or theological
schools to study. It's just not out there on the open market,
the demand is not that great. But when it all comes down to
the bottom line the differences in traditions are only methods
and often semantical. The truths remain on all paths. If someone
truly wants to know these things and holds love in their heart,
well, Spirit will see they receive the lessons they ask for...the
secret is to ask.
It's for
this reason that I often say Religion is of man, Spirituality
is within and of Spirit. There is a difference. We do discuss
universal truths here and we do promote tolerance for all paths.
So the table is open for discussion on just about anything you
can imagine. The issue of Dark Paths and entities is one that
needs to be set up properly though not just jumped into at random
(again IMHO) because of those who are part of our community
openly or behind the scenes being so young, so inexperienced
(at any age). We can so easily mislead by a statement that does
not precede itself with fundamental basics they should have
to base their judgment on.
I agree,
sharing and full disclosure of the unknowns do need to be brought
out into the open, but you wouldn't put a child in a laboratory
full of chemicals if they didn't understand the dangers of mixing
them and leave that child unattended. It's irresponsible. The
same thing applies here. You have to have the background before
you can step into this type of thing. So if you feel disappointed
that you are encountering those old semantics here, I'm sorry
to hear that. Perhaps opening up a discussion at ground level
would be better. That way it could follow a natural (and informed)
discourse. May I suggest you read the article on Entities in
the Knowledge Center and then address any questions you may
have here after that? I think it's the perspective applied to
the onset of the discussion that's important to how far or how
deep it's taken rather than jumping into the middle of something
blindly. And pardon me for saying this, but IMHO you are misleading
yourself if you think these entities are a figment of someone's
imagination or mind. It's much more than that.
To focus
on love as often depicted by white light; openness and all encompassing,
is fine, but it requires understanding of it's opposite to maintain
balance. Shamanism, or any other spiritual or religious pathway
is not all White Light. That's blinding yourself to believe
that. There is a taint to all, temptation is there, abuse is
there, and to deny that is foolish. It exists and there are
people who promote it, inside and outside those circles, and
that's a fact.
It's not
that White consists of all colors, and Black the absence of
color, it's that White represents purity and Black represents
the darkness. In the case of the Jaguar, a Black one is going
to represent (universally speaking) feminine mysteries, magick,
the unknown, but also the teachings of the species. To fully
grasp all that you need to study Jaguar Medicine. It's not negative.
The only negative thing about it is intention behind it that
the person using it asserts. A fire can burn you if you put
your hand in it, but if you stand back that same fire can provide
heat, or if you put a pan on it you can cook. Is it bad? No.
It's the intention of the person behind the act that brings
about the results they get. Black and White are both of Spirit...both
aspects of the whole, but so are all the other colors we have.
It's all a part of the whole, the positive, the negative, the
dark, the light...all part of the whole. How it's applied determines
if it is good or bad...and that's a grey area too. *Smiles*
earthwalker:
Cinnamon, Thank you for sharing your
experience and perspective. It does help. I just need to go
back and explore more so I can get a better understanding. Obviously
you have experience in these areas; I do not. Therefore I will
need to take you word in regards to the opposites. Have a good
evening.
Lune, Ghostkatt, and Cinnamon, Thank
you all! I'll try to reply to all of your comments so this may
be somewhat disjointed.
First of all I need to let others
know that could be reading this website how truly gracious Cinnamon
is. My comments were somewhat of a challenge not consciously
but something I automatically do to see what individuals real
intentions are. As an example I almost always tell Physicians
that I want a second opinion and a discussion of all possibilities.
Usually it is easier to just put the phone aside until they
stop justifying their own opinion and yelling at me. For me
the really good physicians will always welcome the discussion
of options and indicate why they are recommending a path. They
won't try to get you into a study that they are involved with
and if they are suggesting it will readily acknowledge their
potential conflict of interests. Cinnamon was unusually gracious
in honestly presenting her beliefs while not trying to force
them on anyone else. She was equally gracious about discussing
some of the problems that have or can occurred when conflicts
of interest could occur. I believe Cinnamon is open, honest
and deeply cares about the individuals on this website. However,
Cinnamon, I would have liked to been a fly on the wall when
you read the message (s)?
Cinnamon, as a suggestion, it might
be helpful individuals if you could present some guidance in
how to discern a good teacher from one that has alternative
intents? I haven't noticed anything on the website but I may
have overlooked it.
Ghostkatt , Thank-you for making
me look at Inca Black Jaguar medicine. I haven't found a lot
about the subject and some of it is contradictory but it is
very interesting. If you know of any particular good books on
the subject I'd appreciate the information.
All, Cinnamon's discussion as well
as the black jaguar opened up some understanding for me although
I am still working through a lot. I believe the Jaguar was a
balance to the white power. Both were gifts although I don't
know why I would be given this gift. My parents came with the
snow leopard (father) and swan (mother). [I was at peace knowing
my father was as he should be in the more wild worlds and my
mother with the swan. She always loved the beauty of the bird
and loved that which was graceful and elegant. She didn't have
a lot of it while she was alive either when in her own home
or mine. I was therefore happy to see her in a realm that she
would have enjoyed. I guess we all wish we could have given
back more than we could in our lives.] I suspect they came with
the sacred animals as a way of indicating to me that they acknowledged
that my path was correct or a least a possibility for me. This
was something they never could do while they were alive; we
always just agreed to disagree. At 14 on a playground I decided
that "if god was love and love was god, god had to be energy".
To me the total sum of the black jaguar and all the white animals
represented the source energy (balanced between the parts).
The black jaguar (absence of light) powers seemed to equal the
total sum of the whites animals energy. They seemed to represent
the sum of all colors within each kingdom. I felt that the black
jaguar was the protector of
the sacred white animals. Yet I feel that the cat gains its
respect fromthe fear factor with in our selves (possibly an
illusion). He has come to me many times since, he always looks
mean and stares through his green eyes. He places his outstretched
paw with claws showing into the air and paws at me. I usually
just intuitively tell him that I hope that is his way of saying
hello and if not he can leave; he stays and hangs around, he
is comforting and quite beautiful in his own right. In regards
to the white animals I am not sure of what they were telling
me but somehow they seemed to be communicating universal truths.
I need to study them more. The white buffalo was the one most
difficult for me to read, it lingered a little more in the background
while the polar bear, the owl, swan, the snow leopard, and the
Christian spirit walker were in the for front. Possibly they
were all part of the white buffalo since as they diminished
in intensity she became more clearly viewed. I just need to
read more. I also don't think I was really looking for meanings,
I truly was just trying to give back what I could to the beautiful
land and world we live in; albeit not much by comparison.
One of Cinnamon's comment about intent
opened up a lot of thought processes for me. Between her discussion
on negative entities, recognizing possibly my own fear of the
"occult" and seeing and dealing with the black jaguar
I moved well past the fear of the unknown in the spirit world.
I acknowledged that you cannot live in fear of the unknown in
the spirit world any more than you can live in fear of the unknown
in the physical world. We walk everyday amongst bacteria and
pathogens in the air, on the earth, in the water and in and
as combustion products of fire. There are negative things that
can kill us in each; yet we don't dwell on it, we don't walk
in fear. Our intent is to live positively. Death is a normal
part of the circle of life you cannot truly live if you are
afraid to die. So too does this apply to the spiritual world.
The black jaguar does evoke fear until you get to know him but
it is just his/her way. Most sources say it is female, a couple
of sources say male. From dealing with him/her and accepting
him/her I feel that I can walk in the spirit world and feel
no more fear that I have in the physical realm. I believe Cinnamon
is right about intent. The intent of our being protects us in
the realms as it does in the physical realm. We will be effected
but only to the degree of our intent and genetic makeup in the
physical and to the degree of our intent and spiritual make
up in the spirit world. It took an awful lot for me to see something
so simple. I apologize for my blindness.
Ghostkatt discussed the right path
just feeling right and I guess I am still on the path of a seeker.
I know that there is a sacredness to our home and I know that
we are physical entities within energy and the total energy
is labeled by religions and spiritual paths differently. Yet
there are universal truths to all of the paths. I seem to focus
on this a lot. Yet, I also feel I am being pulled along some
type of path, the where's or why's of which I do not know. It
seems to be coming from the world of shamanism but certainly
not to the level you have all been drawn to it. I guess, time
will tell and possibly the black jaguar will lead me whatever
I am to deal with next. Maybe some of you know but I certainly
don't. For now my horizons are expanding and I am learning that
barriers need to be broken down.
Doc:
Hehe,
Reminds me of when I start a book, and suddenly stop reading
it for weeks or months. Suddenly I want to read it again, and
there is a topic that life has just presented me, a few paragraphs
from where I left off....
Cinnamon:
"Cinnamon,
as a suggestion, it might be helpful individuals if you could
present some guidance in how to discern a good teacher from
one that has alternative intents? I haven't noticed anything
on the website but I may have overlooked it."
I think
you did and there are some posts to that in this forum. One
I know is titled "Fiinding a Teacher", the other is
"Teacher Student Relationships" and both are currently
active at the moment so you shouldn't have trouble locating
them here. We can address any questions you may have after reading
either of the threads.
You needn't
apologize for your blindness, it's when we stub our toes we
learn that we preoccupy ourselves with complications to hold
us in place until we figure things out. *S* We're all blind
in our own ways and that's what the journey is about...seeing
into the darkness and shedding light on what really does matter.
Lune:
ok my shot at it I
think I will answer you before I read all the other posts as
I think I will get muddled up... I am having trouble understanding
what you are asking. But
I think that is just that, like you said it is semantics. And
I am even (*she says, thinking of all the times she has explained
a shamanic concept to her scientifically minded family*) having
trouble following your "tech" (*grins*) to understand
the question.
But you know, that has just made me realize I am used to working
the other way. I learnt shamanism through shamanic terminology
and language and experience, and now spend an awful lot of time
figuring out how to explain what is going on in scientific way
- As opposed to what you are doing which is asking a shamanic
question with scientific terminology *giggles* If I have got
it right.
ok so it seems to me you are saying you recognize the linkage
between the worlds but are trying to understand the mechanism
of that linkage? what is is made from and what are it's laws?
That
is simple... everything is energy. The physical world is energy
and so is the spiritual. This is both a scientific concept and
a shamanic concept. They are all the same framework of energy,
all the same world, just different layers. Therefore the "linking
mechanism" is then same as the linking mechanism between
co2 and global climate change. It is all interrelated energy.
As it is all one. When in doubt come back to this premise and
look at things from the perspective of energy. So when there
is a shift in energy in one part, it affects the whole in complex
but often beautiful ways.
So a stone is
quite heavy and quantifiable from a human perspective of picking
it up and feeling it. By the same token the concentration of
a particular gas in the air around you IS quantifiable, but
you need more tools than just your hands to know what gasses
and what ratios. (unless of course it is really obvious like
hydrogen sulfide) But changes in those ratios effect the whole
of the planet anyway. The spirit world is just the same, but
we haven't figured out any groovy technology to quantify that
- yet. (though I think the finer points of say quantum mechanics
or complexity
theory or ecology are on the right track) But it works in the
same way. You change something in the physical world, it has
repercussions throughout all the world, all it's layers. It
is just that for the spiritual world, the tool that is used
to feel and understand it is the human mind, and body and heart
and soul. That is the tool "one eye in the world of the
physical, one in the world of spirit. One ear in the world of
the physical, one ear in the world of spirit".
However I think
trying to understand shamanism through scientific principals
and thought processes is like trying to understand something
from a description of its parts. Really, shamanism is more than
a description of the sum of its parts, it is the EXPERIENCE
of the whole, and from there and experience of its parts, then
back again to an experience of the whole. Experience.
Actually, I have
changed my mind. I will let that stand as an explanation, but
really, my answer to the questions you ask is.... what do YOU
feel is the link? What do YOU feel is the connecting thread
between the physical and spirit? What do YOU feel is the message
these beautiful spirit animals bring to you? What do you feel
is their connection with the Black Jaguar? What does your heart
feel, where your mind can only describe?
That is shamanism
Earthwalker:
Lune, I am not sure of the link. If certain brain waves
are required an effect on brain amine levels could be exhibited.
The fact that certain cultures in the past have used artificial
means to induce dreaming suggests that there is a biochemical
link to the brain amines, as well. However I am quite sure that
it is a cascade effect and more complicated. In addition, please
note I am not suggesting the use of artificial means to induce
any dream state. The world itself offers so much beauty I cannot
personally understand why anyone would want to diminish it.
I also wonder if there is a genetic
link. A few weeks ago I was training an individual to eventually
take over my position as supervisor and we were discussing addressing
techniques to help solve a problem that effected the entire
group. I indicated that the way I try to get a feel for the
problem was to abstract myself and become an unbiased distant
observer; thereby, viewing each individuals actions and responses
including my own as unique. From this stand point, the team
can thereby be guided into making the best decision for the
group (obviously within the context of the goal and individual
preferences). I was actually surprise when the individual indicated
that there was no way to abstract the self like that. I wrongly
assumed that this was normal across the human species. It gave
me an insight to a question I have often asked in "how
people can be so blind to others". Can't they see that
we need diversity and respect that each individual has a different
skill but complementary to one own. The strength of the team
lies in the diversity and respect for each member skills. Yet,
the fundamental step in seeing that is to observe oneself not
as the center of the team or group but uniquely as one member
with a particular set of skills. Are there any techniques which
can bring out this fundamental skill in individuals. It seems
to me that it is a minimum skill for accepting shamanism or
any spiritual path different from one’s own let alone choosing
and practicing something different. I guess what I am asking
is this a learned behavior or one genetically programed? Can
the environment make a difference?
In an attempt to understand, I am
currently reading two books:
"Where God lives; the Science of the Paranormal and
How Our Brains are Linked to the Universe." Melvin
Morse MD and Paul Peery
"Miracles of the Mind; Exploring Nonlocal Consciousness
and Spiritual Healing" Russell Targ and Jane Katra
PhD
Doc, I have a feeling these will
become part of my pile of books read to various stages. I do
go back to re-read. The one book I initially read at 12 "The
Prophet" is a book I have read multiple times over the
decades. It is always amazes me how much I didn't see during
earlier readings.
Silver Eagle, I am drawn to many
paths; initially Catholicism (caremelite nuns), followed by
energy theory, Tibeten masters of various sects, Buddhism, Taoism,
Native American spiritual paths and now shamanism. To me the
common thread has been that each respects the of journey of
the individual and all have universal truths of love. They all
have a mystical component as well.
Northernwolf:
I'm late to the discussion
but here goes I thought I'd take a crack at this one.
You
wrote : "What is the mechanism /linkage of this interaction
or catalysis between realms (energy to physical or physical
to energy)?"
Well
to understand this or rather to have a different view of this
I'd say that the first step is not to consider these two realm
as being independent of each other. If you view it as both being
present at the same time then the connection isn't all that
difficult. This doesn't mean that the realms aren't separated
though.
I'm not too good with physics but I'll try my hand at it using
some notion of experiments that have been done.
Now,
it's known ( although I don’t know how widely ) that it
you place an observer in front of a random number machine for
example, the result vary a bit, as if the observer itself causes
a change in the pattern. I think those kinds of experiment have
been done over and over and if I'm not mistaken, quantum physics
is starting to accept the fact that observing something or putting
one's attention one something will affect the way the molecules
behave. Now with that in mind, I propose that this is the same
phenomena that occurs when energy is brought on the material
plain, what can be called magic. A bit like what Cinnamon said
regarding the will. By focusing one's will with an intent towards
a particular goal, would it be foolish to believe that the matter
which in turn is comprise of energy itself could change to meet
those goals? Personally
I think it's not that foolish. If changes can be witness in
a controlled environment by the mere fact of observing, focusing
one’s mind or will on something should present more noticeable
results.
AS
for the link between matter and energy, Cinnamon mentioned the
inner self. It is indeed through ourself that we tap those other
realms and dimensions which are probable overlapping what we
call our own reality. Personally the way it is done is I believe
through a change in the energy vibrations of our own body. By
changing those vibration we can tap or glimpse those other dimensions
since we attune ourself to the vibration of those realms or
dimensions. This is a process
that is done in shamanic journeying, but even more so in trance
states ( which shamanic journeying is a light form of ) and
in vision quests, just to name a few.
So by being able
to contact those other realms we can affect them and also we
offer up a channel for them to manifest in our own reality.
As we attune to it, it would be logical that it attunes to us
in a way as well, thus we act as a portal for those energy and
our will is the gate keeper, deciding what energy passes our
not.
Earthwalker:
Nothernwolf, Thanks! It does make sense. Will and intent
are definitely links. Wouldn't it be nice if we could will matter
(like the dirt in my house) to just dissipate into energy(s).
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Libraries
are on this row
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INDEX
Page 3
(Main Section, Medicine Wheel, Native Languages &
Nations, Symbology)
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INDEX
Page 5
(Sacred Feminine & Masculine, Stones & Minerals)
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©
Copyright: Cinnamon Moon & River WildFire Moon (Founders.)
2000-date
All rights reserved.
Site
constructed by Dragonfly
Dezignz 1998-date
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