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                  The 36 pages in this Sacred Feminine & Sacred Masculine 
                  section are below. 
                
                Masculine Rite 
                  of Passage
                   By NorthernWolf
                
                  Native American Rock Art 
                  Petroglyphs-Great Hunt Panel at Nine Mile Canyon, UT 
                  
                  
                I was considering putting this in 
                  the walk your talk forum but I figured it could be approached 
                  from the point of view of this forum and that would make it 
                  even more interesting and who knows, maybe shape my focus or 
                  my perspective of things to come. 
                Now before I get started I must warn 
                  you, the reader, that some of you may not agree with what I 
                  will be doing. You have a right to your opinion and I have a 
                  right to mine regarding this. Now 
                  what is this 'THIS' J . Well I have taken a hunting course this 
                  September and I am going hunting for the first time in my life 
                  next week. I have taken 6 weeks of work so I could do that and 
                  rest of course and also, hopefully put some things into perspective.
                The reason I have put this in the 
                  masculine forum is that for some odd reason, I kind of feel 
                  a rite of passage in this. I don't know the how, the why and 
                  all the details but I feel it could be a terrific experience. 
                  Now I don't even know if I'm going to like it or not ( I think 
                  I will on some level ) but there is an experience for me there 
                  for sure. If you put aside the killing part, I feel that this 
                  is an occasion to have such a deep communion with nature as 
                  you have to become part of it completely, be a predator, and 
                  that has to connect you to it in a different way than when you 
                  are just having a stroll through the woods.
                Like I said, I feel there is a rite 
                  of passage in a way that could be experienced through this. 
                  Hunting as always been a male activity and has a lot of rituals 
                  associated with it. If I'm not mistaken, its often used as a 
                  way to signify ones passage into manhood ( adulthood ). In a 
                  way it comes at a fitting time since I have been asking myself 
                  a lot of questions regarding that and I felt ( feel ) that I 
                  have difficulties taking that step. I feel Im lacking 
                  bearings. Who knows that may just be the step I needed.
                Furthermore, I have a lot of predatory 
                  totems, I cannot help but thinking that this could be a chance 
                  to have a unique experience with one or more of them as I would 
                  experience something that is so important in their daily lives.
                I'm starting with small game so its 
                  not exactly what Wolf eats but still I can imagine how it would 
                  feel to merge with him and share his sense of the surrounding 
                  wilderness while stalking through the woods.
                Maybe I'm being a bit romantic about 
                  all of this but these are some of the things I'm anticipating.
                I actually just started to think 
                  about all of that today and I hadn't even considered this before 
                  as something that might have some significance to the masculine 
                  approach. The more I think about it know though ( and Ill 
                  do a little searching on the web on different cultures and approach 
                  to hunting to see if I cant learn more ) the more it fits.
                I just want to reassure those that 
                  have read this far, that I'm not doing this for the thrill of 
                  the kill. I enjoy game meat very much and find it better than 
                  anything that can be found in the supermarket and if I can substitute 
                  a part of my diet with meat that I was actually able to go out 
                  and get myself instead of buying manufactured meat, well I feel 
                  good about that. But I also think it's the whole experience 
                  with nature because even if you don't kill, you have spent the 
                  entire day attuning yourself with your surroundings, to the 
                  sound, the sights , the smells and that in itself its 
                  pretty amazing stuff. I'm just saying this because I know hunting 
                  can be a sensitive issue.
                Mouse:
                  I would 
                  agree with you very much that this sounds like a male rite of 
                  passage. I know that for my boys, who are obviously much, much, 
                  younger than you, the permission to carry and use a knife while 
                  we were camping this summer was HUGE for them and impacted their 
                  lives in ways that still show today. For them, it was a rite 
                  of passage too. I think that a rite of passage is ultimately 
                  done in Nature. Skills are perhaps learned inside our institutions, 
                  inside our human-made walls and constructs, but these practiced 
                  skills are tested in the largest force we know around us - Life. 
                  To use those skills with integrity and discernment, with the 
                  correct use of power and humility IS a test to how that man 
                  perceives himself in this world.
                 I don't think 
                  that a bunch of young men going out into the woods, filled with 
                  beer and bearing rifles or other guns, haphazardly and randomly 
                  shooting at things that move just to prove their masculinity 
                  to the others is a rite of passage. I don't think that shooting 
                  as many animals as you can on a single day to prove your prowess 
                  or to get as much money as possible from it is a rite of passage. 
                  I don't think that killing eagles for their talons and feathers, 
                  cougars for their teeth and claws and bears for their pelts, 
                  teeth and claws is a rite of passage. These are all done to 
                  prove something to some other perceived greater force outside 
                  themselves, for status or money. 
                The rite of passage 
                  lies within tapping into Self, understanding the balance between 
                  power given and power taken. I can imagine your excitement in 
                  this and I wish you a deep and meaningful and lasting experience 
                  in this.
                Northernwolf:
                  Thanks Mouse, this resonated 
                  a lot with me: To use those skills with integrity and 
                  discernment, with the correct use of power and humility IS a 
                  test to how that man perceives himself in this world.
                And I can relate to your boys too. 
                  carrying a rifle, something that is extremely dangerous if not 
                  handled properly requires a certain level of responsibility. 
                  I'm not too fond of responsibility, I like to be free of as 
                  many of them as possible lol. But now with this, I have a responsibility 
                  even when not hunting if that firearm is stored at my house. 
                  But thats one part of all of this. For the rest I cant 
                  foresee what will come of this if anything comes but I do believe 
                  it could change the perception of myself in a certain way.
                Sage Napala:
                  This 
                  is a huge rite of passage. I think you will do well with your 
                  outlook...be a good and true shot. 
                I am 
                  a woman and was taught along with my brothers how to handle 
                  a knife and a gun/rifle. I am a crack shot and taught my children...a 
                  boy and a girl and both are also wonderful marksman. They have 
                  a respect for the weapons and what power they hold and what 
                  we as humans can do with them. 
                They 
                  tried to hunt and though the son likes the small game hunting, 
                  he found the large game not to his liking. He is a softer spirit 
                  and one with nature. His totem is the large Cat so he hunts 
                  as do they. My daughter tried and did not like it at all, her 
                  totems are the grass eaters...horse. I respect this in them. 
                  
                I do 
                  not hunt and only shoot to protect or prevent suffering. They 
                  all know to pray before the kill, thank Spirit for the bounty, 
                  ask forgiveness and give thanks to the one who died and all 
                  things killed are eaten. I remember a BB gun time in the beginning 
                  and a friend asked my son how many sparrows he'd shot. Very 
                  seriously he said none, not ever...I would make him eat them 
                  and their wee spirits would be unhappy with him always. He is 
                  a good boy...I should say man, he will be 18 soon. 
                Spirit 
                  gave them to us to honor, admire and love but also to eat when 
                  needed. If there is no waste you do honor to the spirit of the 
                  animal. We waste none of it. My doberchild can eat only venison 
                  and so she gets it each year....I thank the beautiful ones who 
                  give up their lives so she may live, but I cannot shoot them...another 
                  does this but I do the prayers and honors along side them. It 
                  is the least I can do for them. 
                I wish 
                  you greatness on your hunt.
                CinnamonMoon:
                  I agree with everything 
                  Mouse said too, my friend. There is the warrior aspect of the 
                  hunt, the stalking, the proving to oneself that you are capable 
                  of fulfilling an important mission. There needs to be prayer 
                  (in the Native tradition) offered prior to the hunt for a good 
                  hunt and a clean kill to the spirit of the species you are hunting 
                  (one or more). There then needs to be thanks given after the 
                  hunt for that success. In order for that to happen you will 
                  have to become one with Nature and the environment. Your senses 
                  will come into play and I cannot see how you could avoid it 
                  not being a sensory and spiritual experience. You're out of 
                  your element in a foreign environment and if you 'want' this 
                  to be a rite of passage for you, if you're sensing that it is, 
                  you'll find Nature embraces that. 
                We can have formal rites of passage 
                  or natural ones. The first shaman did not have anyone to initiate 
                  that role for them other than Spirit and Mother sending a Spirit 
                  Helper to do it or instigating the elements of life to do so. 
                  I have had both experiences as I moved through the years and 
                  one is not greater than another. I have a fondness for what 
                  unfolds in the natural format, there's something so mystical 
                  about it and that's an effortless experience in the sense that 
                  it just happens to us. It's beautiful and you know I wish that 
                  for you as you venture into this.
                 I believe that you would not have 
                  this feeling of potential coming over you like this if you weren't 
                  to watch for that...perhaps stalk the rite of passage as much 
                  as you stalk your prey? And in that role of predator too, you 
                  step into something foreign to your experiences up until now 
                  so that's bound to have an impact. 
                Killing, well if we kill with honor 
                  to eat I see nothing wrong with it. Even processed meat at the 
                  grocery store is the result of a kill, and I've been through 
                  the slaughter houses, there's nothing sacred about them. It's 
                  mass extermination. Far different from a clean kill, the animals 
                  are under great stress going in. They do it mercifully as they 
                  can I guess, it's been years for me and it may well have gotten 
                  better but it turned my stomach to see the process. I was a 
                  little girl then and my Uncle Selmer was a foreman there so 
                  he 'treated' us to the experience. Not much of a treat in my 
                  eyes at the time but I understand it was necessary to provide 
                  meat for the masses. Not everyone has it in them to pull that 
                  trigger. I do not support what I call 'joy killing' for trophy 
                  reasons or sport. A waste of life is senseless to me. For food 
                  and if this is to be a spiritual transformation for you (which 
                  is very likely) then I see nothing wrong with it.
                 You become the hunter, but you become 
                  the warrior too -- the skills are the same when it comes to 
                  prey. Your whole being is involved. You're alone with Nature 
                  and the Land itself or it's Nature Spirits could well commune 
                  with you too. There's so much potential in all this for you. 
                  I do hope you'll share either way when you return and I wish 
                  you all the best with this experience.
                 P.S. I do think this is something 
                  very appropriate for this forum and I'm going to ask a friend 
                  of ours to come address this when he has time.
                Jimmy WhiteBear:
                  There 
                  was a time when a young man (teenager) was sent out into the 
                  wilderness to hunt and vision quest. Hunting was for survival 
                  and now, for what appears to be most men, learning to connect 
                  with the Earth mother is secondary to the hunt. When I go out 
                  into the wilderness and find beer cans and food wrappers, worm 
                  containers and styrofoam dunkin' donuts coffee containers Spent 
                  shotgun shells etc., I can only see fools that have little if 
                  no respect for the earth. I am not against unt but I am not 
                  a hunter. I have learned to track our fourlegged friends to 
                  learn about them. When I go out, I carry only a knife, the knife 
                  is for self protection and survival if needed. 
                That said, 
                  Masculine rights of passage come in many ways, not just hunting. 
                  Like fishing, it isn't about catching fish, its about being 
                  out there and connecting the masculine with the feminin (sp) 
                  energies of Mother earth. When we sit at a drum and sing to 
                  creator, we are connecting ourselves with the heartbeat of the 
                  people and the earth. Learning to bring the two energies into 
                  one is learning balance and balance is the Right of Passage. 
                  As Teen agers and young men, most seem to think a six pack or 
                  case of beer is the passage. We are now men because we can drink 
                  ourselves blind and do stupid Sh**. I read in another thread 
                  someone stating that age 52 for men is when wisdom is acquired. 
                  Age does not define wisdom, experience defines wisdom, but only 
                  if one has learned from experience.
                 Hunting 
                  is an experience that much can be learned from if it is done 
                  in a sacred manner. The old ones and many people of today will 
                  create ceremony prior to hunting. Burn some sage or sweetgrass, 
                  ask creator and the spirits to guide them and not let the animal 
                  suffer, make it a clean kill! Then when they are out there, 
                  treat the forest with the respect it deserves. When a kill is 
                  made, immediately offer up tobacco and prayer for the animal, 
                  thanking it for giving up its life so you (I) can continue to 
                  live. Making sure that every part of the animal is used, nothing 
                  goes to waste. This is sacred law, it is the way of the warrior, 
                  The way of a man that is in balance with the Earth Mother and 
                  Creator. If an animal has been wounded doesn't die and runs 
                  off, it is up the warrior to track that animal no matter how 
                  long it takes and bring its pain to an end as quickly as possible. 
                  This is the Right of passage. Being connected to the earth and 
                  creators energies, being balanced!...
                 Hunt well! 
                  Be well and be safe--- Be in balance!
                CinnamonMoon:
                  I'm pretty sure it was me 
                  generalizing about becoming an Elder at 52, Bear. (Thank you!) 
                  It is true, wisdom comes from experience, but at that age I 
                  was taught that most people have had those years of experience 
                  that call for the respect we give the Elders. It is a blanket 
                  comment though....and it applies to both genders. The Medicine 
                  Women I know mark becoming an Elder at that age.
                Wynsong:
                  Northernwolf, 
                  Good journey!
                EagleSinging:
                  So, Northernwolf, I am so 
                  happy for this experience you will have (or had by now)! I agree 
                  wholeheartedly with the perspectives of what has already been 
                  shared with you.
                 I am a gatherer. I pick mushrooms, 
                  wild berries, and clams and crabs. I am grateful when I find 
                  bounty, and I am appreciative even when I find little. When 
                  I am gathering, I am most successful, and really most satisfied, 
                  when I gather after centering and praying. And, during the gathering, 
                  I am always checking with guidance and I am more often than 
                  not led by guidance to a harvest. After I harvest, I express 
                  my thanks to Mother and Spirit.
                 I hope you have an absolutely wonderful 
                  time! I look forward to your stories upon your return.
                Jimmy WhiteBear:
                  Your 
                  so right Cinn, thank you, Bear
                StarBearWalking:
                  Greetings! Ah! 
                  Hunting stories with heart. Thank you! Congratulations Northerwolf! 
                  How did everyone do this hunting season? I'm not a hunter but 
                  I enjoy the meat. I help where I can in the preparing, I just 
                  cant do the actually shooting. Hope everyone had a happy 
                  and safe hunting season.
                CinnamonMoon:
                  (((Jimmy))))
                I'm like you StarBearWalking, I can't 
                  shoot an animal either, and don't care for wild game so hunting 
                  and I don't mix. Our season doesn't start until just before 
                  Thanksgiving. Has it started out your way already?
                StarBearWalking:
                  Greetings! Some 
                  of the people I know do Bow hunting and the Kids seemed to be 
                  early also. But not for sure on that. Almost done here. In Love 
                  and Light
                CinnamonMoon:
                  I see. Bow hunting here 
                  starts next weekend. Rifle and shotgun the week after that.
                MonSnoLeeDra:
                  As I read 
                  this thread over I wonder about the conclusions I have seen 
                  expressed here. Many I'll admit fly in opposition to what I 
                  was taught and the meaning of rites of passage and such things 
                  in a male perspective. Not saying they are wrong simply different 
                  than I was taught.
                 For me the hunt was 
                  sort of the culmination of many lessor rites we progressed through. 
                  Yet even that was not totally correct for it simply was a doorway 
                  to yet another series of tests and undertakings we must face 
                  and pass. It was marked by the knowledge of weapons and what 
                  it's purpose was. It was marked by the knowledge of creating 
                  various weapon's and how to do so with the materials we would 
                  find upon the land. In many ways a continuation of games we 
                  started as children when we would hunt each other or do mock 
                  attacks as we tried to defeat an enemy. 
                While the hunt was based 
                  upon the obtainment of meat many times that was a result of 
                  not the purpose of the hunt. I was taught that first and fore 
                  most the hunt was the final test that showed we had learn to 
                  become not only prey but hunter and were able to exist with 
                  the natural world about us. It was a active test that showed 
                  if we had learnt to read the currents of the land and feel the 
                  beat of the various types of life in the area. It was an understanding 
                  of the place of things and the way each interacted in the greater 
                  concept of the living world. In some small ways even a test 
                  to see if we had the ability to become that which we hunted 
                  or become that which hunted.
                 It was the test that 
                  showed we had learnt the cycles of the land and the life upon 
                  it. In some regards we had not only been introduced to the land 
                  but had become one with it. We knew the laws of man as to when 
                  things could or should occur but also learnt the cycles of life 
                  and reproduction. It was a test to see the change in presentation 
                  as the wildlife transitioned from feeding for winter to growing 
                  the signs of mating and the indicators of each. We looked for 
                  the rubs of the deer as they marked the land and played their 
                  sent and marks to show their position and strength and station 
                  in their family.
                 It was a test to see 
                  if we could read the land and the life forms upon it. Could 
                  we see the change in the leaves as they rolled over to accept 
                  the moisture from the fallen dew. Did we know the way the land 
                  played upon the life forms. Did we feel the flow of water and 
                  know the smell of it as it carried on the breeze? Could we step 
                  upon the land and leave no trace of our passage and blend in 
                  so we smelled like everything else. 
                We were taught the nature 
                  of our purpose as hunters and gathers upon the land. We became 
                  aware of the means to be the predator and understand the need 
                  for both predator and prey upon the cycle of life. In many instances 
                  we were taught patience as we waited in ambush or tracked our 
                  prey. Patience as we waited and watched the actions and movements 
                  of each creature upon the land and learnt the language of the 
                  land as one species told another we were present.
                 It was about gaining 
                  a feel for how the land lived beneath us and how we must live 
                  with it. In many ways it was a test to actually lean how to 
                  not only look but actually see what was before us. In many ways 
                  the landscape did not matter when compared to the lesson's we 
                  learnt. The life upon a city street contained much of the same 
                  life lessons and rites as those found in the wilderness or in 
                  the small suburbs.
                 I was taught to honor 
                  the prey that I hunted and to take only what was needed to survive. 
                  I was taught to select what was best suited for my need. We 
                  did not take the mother and leave the cub. Yet we were also 
                  taught to be a fighter as well as when to fight and when to 
                  flee.
                 Never was it about 
                  getting in contact with the female powers or energy. Yes, aware 
                  of them as life pushed up through the ground, or the mating 
                  season fell upon us. AS the herds moved from area to area, or 
                  the flocks gathered to fly south or when to expect them to return, 
                  but the notion of doing it to contact the female never a facet 
                  of it. 
                One thing was always 
                  to honor the blood. To take part of their energy and life and 
                  place it upon us and thank it for the gift it bestowed upon 
                  us and the understanding that went with it. 
                Yet as I stated above 
                  this is not to say I am right and another wrong, simply the 
                  way I was taught and raised.
                Northernwolf:
                  Thank you very much for 
                  your reply. It opens a new perspective for me and also it reflect 
                  some of the experience that I had. One thing though it makes 
                  me aware of some things to focus on the next time I go. Ill 
                  think on this more and think on the experience that I had and 
                  Ill be back to share. Since it was a series of new experiences 
                  for me I have yet to grasp all of it. Very interesting post 
                  MonSnoLeeDra, you have given me a lot to think upon. Thank you 
                  again.
                CinnamonMoon:
                  MonSnoLeeDra~If I may, where 
                  do you see in the other replies a difference to what you've 
                  shared? I ask because when I went back over the thread I saw 
                  people sharing topically where you shared in more detail but 
                  it felt to me to be along the same lines. There was a common 
                  thread through it all (IMHO) and I'm just curious about that.
                MonSnoLeeDra:
                  Cinn, It's 
                  not so much that what was said as it was the feel of it to me. 
                  Part of it seemed to speak to the concept of the noble hunter 
                  yet most times that is not real. The great hunter that brings 
                  home all parts to be used, yet truth be told what is bought 
                  home is what the hunter can carry or move. To think that every 
                  part is bought back is foolish depending upon the prey sought. 
                  To the honor of the prey yet again not all Hunts are for that 
                  purpose. 
                For instance it was 
                  mentioned about giving permission to have a knife. To us there 
                  was no permission only expectations by our parents and peer 
                  group of the obtainment of one. For some it would be the first 
                  thing we possessed that one might call a weapon. Granted many 
                  times it might be as small as a pen knife, but a knife never 
                  the less. But the focus was always on the notion of it being 
                  a tool that might be used. As we got older the concept of the 
                  knife became not only that of a tool but also a sign of projected 
                  power based upon the size of the blade and the envy of other's. 
                  Just the look of what you could do and the way it was acknowledged 
                  fed that action born side of the male persona.
                 We could throw them, 
                  stick them in tree's, make pseudo weapons of spears or arrows. 
                  Yes, even show our concept of strength and power as we foolishly 
                  threw them at each other or acted upon dare after dare. 
                We honored the creature 
                  we went after but seldom was it via tobacco or other things 
                  like that unless it was a major hunt that would involve many 
                  people in the same base camp. But even as that was an honor 
                  to the animal it was also a boasting and display of power and 
                  skill again. It was a statement of what one would do and claims 
                  of their ability and statement of what they would bring back 
                  as a show of their magic, granted not the term used. 
                Drink and such were 
                  part of the process in the concept of the dance and bolster 
                  of power. The nightly gatherings that occurred when the "Mighty 
                  Hunter" recounted the events of the day or even boasted 
                  of the one that got away. A bonding of male energy and acceptance 
                  and admission into the world of men for many first timers. Granted 
                  I agree with what was said about taking it out into the field.
                 Many of the stories 
                  and methods we learn to hunt by come from those gatherings. 
                  Sometimes we hear of the darker facet of the hunt as well and 
                  the price of that error. Yes, even the humorous side as we tell 
                  stories of hunters we have seen come in for their first day 
                  of the season expeditions and the creatures they have bagged. 
                  I've seen hunter's come in for deer and carry a tagged goat 
                  to check in, saw one bring in a brahma bull for check in.
                 The gatherings that 
                  so often showed us the scares and costs of the male hunt. The 
                  ripping of flesh when you approach the deer you think dead only 
                  to have it jump up at you. Dogs bearing the marks of battle 
                  with the bear, the tares and scares of battle with the raccoon. 
                  Heck even the marks of a goose as she hangs her head even with 
                  the ground and tears into you when you step into her nest without 
                  realizing it. 
                Sometimes the ritual 
                  of the first blooding upon flesh. The process of cleaning and 
                  preparing your first meat if close enough to the base camp, 
                  or taking everything you could carry out if a long way from 
                  camp. The show of antlers or other signs that mark the hunt 
                  and the taking of trophies to mark your success or even power. 
                  Some really don't understand the meaning but when we see the 
                  squirrel tail, the turkey beard, the antler, even claws it's 
                  a sign of a union and brotherhood. In many ways they are items 
                  we will carry back into the field with us. I will grant that 
                  there are those that go only for the trophy and those I dislike.
                 The hunt is not just 
                  about killing for food. Granted from Northernwolfs OP 
                  that is the notion of this particular hunt and the ritual facet 
                  of it. Yet the hunt is used not only the train the warrior skills 
                  as mentioned but also to kill without the intent of taking food. 
                  The skills used to place food on the table are also the skills 
                  used to track the rogue animal that kills, to track that animal 
                  that has been injured and is now a danger to all things. To 
                  track and kill those creatures that are sick and infected. But 
                  all that seems to be missing or taken for granted, yet one who 
                  goes into nature for the hunt will also be thinking of all that 
                  for what you seek today may also be one that is injured and 
                  got away from another hunter. 
                There is balance as 
                  stated but sometimes there is great struggle and testing to 
                  make that balance happen. Most speak of the implied easy kill 
                  that is quick and easy, yet more often than not that is not 
                  true. Balance and respect for your prey comes as you track it 
                  by the blood trail as it's life feeds out. As you follow knowing 
                  that it may be a few feet to hours upon hours on the trail. 
                  Knowing that depending upon the area once the blood is spilt 
                  it is a signal that pulls in everything and you may not be the 
                  only thing tracking it. 
                It feels to me that 
                  the notion of the struggle of body and mind is missing. The 
                  determination to follow the trail and end the suffering of the 
                  animal. Even to face the possibility that it might turn and 
                  attack, or lead you off into area's that in any other situation 
                  you never would enter. The struggle to face your fears as your 
                  heart beats loudly in your ears and your lungs strain at your 
                  chest. To push your body to its extreme and disregard the pain 
                  of joints and weakness that fills you as the track goes on and 
                  on. To test your strengths and weakness against nature. 
                To me many of the things 
                  stated painted a picture of setting on the shore and casting 
                  a line into the water, pulling your prey to you. Of the hunter 
                  sitting in their tree stand and getting the deer that passes 
                  beneath them and falls within a few feet. Of hunting from the 
                  blind and waiting for the animal to come to you then the quick 
                  kill. Of going on the control hunt where your ensured of your 
                  game for it has been properly feed, properly tracked and placed 
                  and contained within the control area.
                 Sorry if this has wandered 
                  off in my answer. I hope it answered your questions. Like I 
                  said before it is not to say anyone is wrong or right only that 
                  it came to me a opposite of much of what I was taught and how 
                  things worked.
                CinnamonMoon:
                  Thank you for sharing this. 
                  What I see is that you saw (from the masculine perspective and 
                  the sacred point of view) what was not being addressed. You 
                  tied it all together in what struck you as missing and did a 
                  beautiful job in explaining what that brings to bear. I'm grateful 
                  you were willing to do so. Whether it 'is' a rite of passage 
                  or not may not matter so much as understanding the points you've 
                  raised.
                 While I knew the things you were 
                  sharing I have not experienced them personally as a man might. 
                  I could not reiterate them as eloquently as you've done. However 
                  as you expressed them I could journey with your telling and 
                  understand what you were saying being in agreement with it. 
                  I'm just not inclined to hunt that way. My hunting experiences 
                  are all spiritually based or through a woman's 'gathering' techniques. 
                  Similar yet different, not as physically intense perhaps. Though 
                  I watched my male relatives go through all those things over 
                  the years, my brothers growing up, taught by our fathers and 
                  sometimes joined in the knife games they played when we were 
                  younger. Piggly Stick stands out...where you toss the open blade 
                  near the feet of the other person and see how close you can 
                  come without hurting them, and definitely sticking the knife 
                  tossed into a tree or a circle on the ground--target practice. 
                  Later I joined them in target practice with a gun but I never 
                  hunted with them. I never used a gun to take a life. I don't 
                  have that experience to share.
                I did sit with them as they retold 
                  their stories at night but my role was that of a woman...seeing 
                  to the things they would need when they returned and preparing 
                  the meals. Often my home was camp to these hunters over the 
                  years and we'd fill it to capacity utilizing floors for beds 
                  if need-be. That may sound like a very defined feminine role 
                  and in that sense I guess it was, but I understood the men and 
                  what drove them and there were women that hunted alongside them 
                  too, my sister is an avid hunter. I saw both good and bad hunting 
                  habits and the results of carelessness or messy kills. So in 
                  that light I can relate to everything you said. 
                I think that you were sent to this 
                  thread to point out the details. As for the things you found 
                  distasteful, I agree, it's not the same thing...letting prey 
                  come to you, and the easy aspect. Or even the ceremonial aspect 
                  always being present. But I did do ceremony for a good hunt 
                  for the men when they went out so that was there, even if it 
                  wasn't done by them it was by my doing--and whether they knew 
                  it or not, some did, some didn't. Perhaps there were women in 
                  your circles that did something similar to assist their men's 
                  successes or simply offered prayers for the successful hunts. 
                  In either case, I thank you for letting me nudge you and draw 
                  a little more from your insights. I'm sure it will be valuable 
                  to those who come to this thread now and in the future. Thanks, 
                  my friend!
                MonSnoLeeDra:
                  My role 
                  was that of a woman...seeing to the things they would need when 
                  they returned and preparing the meals.
                See I think this is 
                  one where as a male we did touch upon and to some degree become 
                  one with what might be seen a female energy. While on occasion 
                  there might be a woman or women with us more often than not 
                  there were none. In that light we did have to cook or prepare 
                  items. Granted many of us could ruin boiled water at first, 
                  but in that regard it didn't matter only that it was hot. That 
                  point where coffee is more a matter of eating than drinking 
                  as the grounds do not settle. Even in the concept of Boy Scouts 
                  and other male oriented groups is this one major point where 
                  the energy is crossed I think. Sort of like the concept of repairing 
                  torn clothing or sewing on a button. Things we equate to our 
                  sisters and mothers and would never admit to outside the forest.
                My hunting experiences 
                  are all spiritually based or through a woman's 'gathering' techniques. 
                  Here again is a point where I think we cross over that is not 
                  part of the "HUNT" process to us but something we 
                  observe and in many ways partake in. We do gather and hunt for 
                  things like bait to fish with, wood for the fire, bedding for 
                  our sleeping bags if outside or sometimes inside. In some ways 
                  things which we do in which we display those female energies 
                  that we observe from our sisters and mothers and other women. 
                  We hear those echoes of how to tell if the fruit is ripe, where 
                  to store this or that, how to prepare these items or those things. 
                  Many things that when we ask we are told to "Go ask your 
                  Mom!" In some ways that connection that shows us we are 
                  needed but also display the need we possess for them. The check 
                  and double check as mom or wife makes sure we have this or that 
                  item. The pull that makes us ask and touch even though we know 
                  we can do so on our own, but gives that support and bonding 
                  that creates one action of purpose.
                Often my home 
                  was camp to these hunters over the years and we'd fill it to 
                  capacity utilizing floors for beds if need-be. That may sound 
                  like a very defined feminine role.
                Not to me for it is 
                  reflective of the role played by the person who stayed behind 
                  to watch the area and protect the kills from previous days. 
                  Of the hunter's that stayed to prepare the game for packing 
                  and maintained the fire or were designated cook for the day 
                  when we used that. Perhaps feminine in association to home and 
                  hearth but also a rotating job when large numbers were present.
                Or even the ceremonial 
                  aspect always being present. But I did do ceremony for a good 
                  hunt for the men when they went out so that was there, even 
                  if it wasn't done by them it was by my doing--and whether they 
                  knew it or not, some did, some didn't. This is one facet I saw 
                  more in my youth as my grandmother or other wives would speak 
                  of the success of the hunt and pray for good weather and game. 
                  Of the giving of special things to protect and watch over the 
                  men. Of stories of past success and the expectation of more 
                  of the same and sometimes the need of success. I still hear 
                  of my sisters telling their husbands of the hunt and their support. 
                  Of the special check before they take off for the day or the 
                  special packing and preparation given when they go off for a 
                  week of more. I think in some ways it ties us to the female 
                  energies but also serves to tie us together as a bonded and 
                  equal union of two sides of the same need. 
                When we step away from 
                  the camp we are the male energy in action and movement. The 
                  energy that drives us forward and makes us struggle one more 
                  step or stay just a moment longer. The urge that makes us go 
                  out into the dark of night and travel to our spot, even as the 
                  cold seeps into our bodies. The hunter that puts body and mind 
                  against the realities of nature. 
                Yet, when we return 
                  to camp we hold those male active energies as we also give way 
                  and accept the female energies that call for us to bond. That 
                  help form the ties that hold us together and give purpose to 
                  the urge that drives us forward. Those more passive facets of 
                  the female energy that make us laugh or joke at each other and 
                  our success or lack thereof. Those energies that balance the 
                  aggressive and con-frontal energies of the male ego and energy.
                CinnamonMoon:
                  Yes, I can see where it 
                  would spill over in certain ways, of necessity, between the 
                  masculine and feminine roles when men are at camp. It's something 
                  my brothers were capable of too and get them home and they 'forgot' 
                  how to do it all. Ha! When the men who hunted and camped at 
                  night in my home gathered together they had their stories too. 
                  You bet they did. It was part of the package for them and there 
                  was a lot of razzing going on too. Who was better at what seemed 
                  important to them. LOL Yes, there was the evening check when 
                  everyone came in...dinner, ammunition, cleaning of weapons, 
                  getting the gear ready for the next day would always be a priority 
                  before sleep. And another check in the morning when they were 
                  leaving before sunup. Most wanted some trail food in their pockets 
                  so the cooking for these items was done in a way to fit in the 
                  pocket. Naturally more of that if they were going to be gone 
                  for week or longer. It was something they really loved though 
                  and the bonding at those times was strong.
                Paah Wenchokws:
                  I have 
                  been reading this topic and respect and honor all the words 
                  here. I wish to add a few of my experiences with masculine rite 
                  of passage.
                 Living and growing 
                  up in nature and living off the land was very sacred to my family. 
                  We raised our own vegetables, and hunted for everything. It 
                  was very rare to go to a grocery store. My Father said there 
                  is a balance to everything and everything has a spirit. He said 
                  the meat you are eating now, that is your relation. He would 
                  further say there is an order in life and death. When you meet 
                  the animal you are hunting, pay respect. Pay respect all the 
                  way, beginning to the end. And waste not, honor everything. 
                  
                When he went to 
                  hunt and most of time I went along, he would have a lodge [sweat] 
                  to purify ourselves. We would pray to the Great Spirit, pray 
                  to Mother and pray to the Animals. We would honor our spirit 
                  by becoming balanced and ridding any impurities. It is the way 
                  to present your spirit to the animals spirit.
                 When the hunt would 
                  come to an end, he would perform a smudging over the animal 
                  to honor its spirit and to send it back to the creator. It died 
                  in an honorable way. For we had a meeting of spirits through 
                  the hollow bones. Respect he said is a way of life, not a right. 
                  He thought no less of the plant world as we planted and harvested 
                  from our gardens, the meadows and the woods. 
                There are all kinds 
                  of hunting, there is stalking, there is trapping for example. 
                  There is the hunt for food, the hunt for power, the hunt for 
                  wisdom are just a few more examples. I like the title the masculine 
                  rite of passage a lot! For me the masculine rite of passage 
                  is part of me just as much as the feminine rite of passage is. 
                  What I learned the most in the masculine rite of passage is 
                  what I call setting traps. 
                There comes a time 
                  when I do not need to worry about trapping. It may be hard for 
                  me to explain, but here it goes, for it applies to both the 
                  physical and spiritual and most important the hunt for power.
                 First of all I 
                  must look at my intent and will. I want to make sure that what 
                  I am hunting, I am doing in an honorable and sacred way. Hunting 
                  is the gathering of experiences and knowledge, be it for food 
                  for the table, or for power. At first there is a lot of hunger, 
                  so we set traps and we trap things we need or do not need. This 
                  happens from time to time. Pretty soon, we fall into a routine 
                  and stay too long into the hunt, for we will lure/trap/capture 
                  something and the next thing you know it is an addiction. Losing 
                  a sensitivity if you will.
                 There is a routine 
                  to hunting and trapping. Sooner or later, we start to understand 
                  the patterns, the routines. We forget the gentleness, the sacredness 
                  of the hunt. A hunter watches the physical, the spiritual and 
                  everything. In doing so, everything tells me some kind of secret. 
                  And therefore presents itself to me, I do not need to set traps.
                 Of course we set 
                  traps for animals and we set these traps because we have studied 
                  their habits, their routines. But in saying this I need to look 
                  at my habits and be aware of those within myself. For I do not 
                  want to become the very prey I am trapping. For these habits 
                  could make me pray for something or someone else. I want to 
                  stop the cycle of pray upon prey, so to speak. I do not want 
                  to become prey, either in the physical or spiritual world. I 
                  must be careful with my intent not to set a trap and then accidently 
                  set a trap unto myself. 
                I really do not 
                  know if anyone understands what I am trying to say here. But 
                  for me this is what makes me a warrioress hunter. I cherish 
                  and honor all that my Father taught me for neither of my Brothers 
                  followed my Fathers ways. I was taught many things by my Father 
                  that in his tribe were not taught to women. This I honor deeply, 
                  and I honor my Mothers ways, this I honor deeply.
                MonSnoLeeDra:
                  Paah 
                  Wenchokws, I think I understand what you are saying. In many 
                  ways you have stated some of the things I have come to understand 
                  on what I have come to call "THE GREAT HUNT". For 
                  me this has been a journey and lesson that has touched upon 
                  not only the physical act of the hunt but also upon the notion 
                  of the Mental Hunt and Life Hunt. 
                Over time certain 
                  stories and such reflect upon my eyes and ears of things from 
                  long ago to just yesterday. For instance I recall my grandfather 
                  showing me the story of Squirrel one day. On this day we were 
                  walking upon an old dirt road in the mountains when we came 
                  to a spot where a number of squirrel's were gathering acorns 
                  near an old tree trunk. Taking a stone he threw it at one and 
                  knocked it out. While I thought that was neat he pointed out 
                  that the other squirrels scampered off for a bit but soon returned. 
                  
                Lying there he 
                  waited a moment then stunned another squirrel, that fell close 
                  to the first. As I watched the two squirrels I sort of though 
                  them pretty dumb to be so easily trapped. My grandfather then 
                  asked me what had I noticed, of course I replied what I though 
                  and spoke of how easy it was to do. Of course I was quite happy 
                  with my response and such but it took a moment for his dis-approving 
                  eyes to sink in.
                 He mentioned 
                  that I Had become so engrossed that I failed to notice the hawk 
                  that had landed in the tree and was watching with interest. 
                  I had also failed to notice the eyes and ears peering out of 
                  some underbrush close to the squirrels, closer than we in fact. 
                  He basically showed me that even though we were the hunter, 
                  two other hunter's had arrived and I had failed to see their 
                  presence for I had become engrossed by my prey, even to the 
                  point of being unaware as they were of me. 
                Yes I learnt his 
                  lesson that day, In fact it comes back around to me often as 
                  I put so much focus and attention into things that I fail to 
                  notice the other predators at times. Ironically, one of those 
                  things were we place so much attention into the hunt that we 
                  fail to realize the hunt continues, if even for just a few moments. 
                  
                Your words reminded 
                  me of the notion of becoming so focused upon the landscape that 
                  we lose our place upon it and may even become lost in it. We 
                  are like the trapper that has set his traps over and over and 
                  becomes so familiar with the place we take it for granted and 
                  fail to notice subtle changes. At times even forgetting the 
                  location of our traps until we stumble into them, and only then 
                  remember that we had placed one there. Even to the point of 
                  having a mental picture we follow and fail to see changes to 
                  it, even the presence of other trappers as we become wrapped 
                  in the process and not the purpose or reason why we trap. 
                I always heard 
                  honor that which you trail yet always remember not to become 
                  that which you trail. Yes, follow the animal in your head by 
                  knowing it's mind and habit but to be aware that taking on its 
                  guise could become permanent if done for the wrong purpose. 
                  I took 23 years in the military to realize that it's an easy 
                  step to cross the line from tracking the prey across the land 
                  to become the one being tracked upon the land.
                 In a great many 
                  ways it took a long time to realize that the hunt showed me 
                  how to live in my world. How to track and watch the world I 
                  live in and to give it the respect it is due. To give honor 
                  to those things that I do and see the various ways I take prey 
                  from the land. To step forward with purpose and desire, but 
                  to also know of my need and not loose site of my need to the 
                  clutches of a false want or must have.
                 In many ways 
                  the prey I have followed over the years have taught me to fight 
                  when I must, or to run and hide when I must. How to be a man 
                  and stand for that which must be stood for, to protect and stand 
                  guard of my clan, and to be a parent. To see the need and place 
                  of things and the interaction of those things. The fallacy of 
                  assumption even though I still make that error. It has taught 
                  me there is a time and a place for each possible weapon I possess 
                  but each weapon is not correct for each time and place. 
                OK I think I may 
                  have wandered off and I have been up for hours so it is time 
                  I release this one to the winds less I become entrapped in its 
                  snare.
                Paah Wenchokws:
                  I liked 
                  what you wrote MonSnoLeeDra2. I have had similar lesson's and 
                  yes certain lesson's do come back around. It isn't that we repeat 
                  the same one over and over. It is that in a really good lesson 
                  we can take that lesson and apply it to many things.
                CinnamonMoon:
                  You're 
                  so right, Paah, there are many layers to the things we learn, 
                  and the trick is seeing how many places we can apply them. Then 
                  we walk in consciousness of those lessons and raise our awareness. 
                  I liked the things you've both shared too. Thank you.
                Mouse:
                  I am 
                  very much appreciating and enjoying your contributions here 
                  MonSnoLeeDra. My boys will benefit from them, I am sure. Thank 
                  you.
                
                   
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                       Libraries 
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                      INDEX 
                        Page 3 
                        (Main Section, Medicine Wheel, Native Languages & 
                        Nations, Symbology) 
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                      INDEX 
                        Page 5 
                        (Sacred Feminine & Masculine, Stones & Minerals) 
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                        Copyright: Cinnamon Moon & River WildFire Moon (Founders.) 
                        2000-date 
                        All rights reserved.  
                      Site 
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