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Spiritual Ethics Discussion
by Cinnamon Moon

I thought I'd share a conversation I had with a friend not long ago. We were looking into the ethical interaction others have in the business arena where spirituality is concerned along with the reactions of others who are unprepared for that type of presentation. A woman I knew was in a board meeting and using astrology to base her concepts on where business matters were concerned. Now in and of itself I see nothing wrong with that but she was making her presentation and addressing those points of reference. On the other end of that the board members were non-believers in many cases, and what she was albeit addressing held some good points in general.

Now the woman presenting has a firm spiritual path, it's a way of life for her but she was quickly losing credibility as it became obvious that her associates were ignoring her comments--she seemed oblivious to it. Her own beliefs were so ingrained in her nature that she obviously didn't differentiate this as something that might be inappropriate. Now I'm aware that close business acquaintances often form familiarity in relationships, enough were we can forget ourselves and let our guard down a little, it happens to all of us. But this individual was setting an example of the elements of business according to her spiritual beliefs and presenting it as the validation of what she had 'predicted' would happen. It was presented to individuals whom she had no knowledge of their spiritual beliefs or their religious persuasions, she just put it all on a platter and handed it to them. No one at that meeting acknowledged her comments. Not one person. Were they insulted? Were they thinking she was a 'space case'? Was it appropriate of her to make such comments? Had she crossed a line? How would you know for certain?

Considering that the response to her comments was silence it can be assumed that no one wanted to insult her. It appeared too that no one wanted to acknowledge the comments were not 'on topic', no one wanted to say anything. What were they thinking though? Was this presentation ethical and where do ethics play into one's spirituality? How do you *know* when nothing's being said? Well, you'd have to go back to that situation, watch their reactions, their body language, their facial expressions, their eyes, then you'd know…you know that unspoken language. How often do you use it yourself? It's that same reading into situations that allows us to communicate and understand our Spirit Helpers when they come to us…we don't all hear their voices in the literal sense. Some of us see them and hear nothing so it's all gestures and symbols. Sometimes it's a mixture of different senses…how do we know how to understand them…we observe the nuances. We learn to read what they're telling us. We ask if we are confused: "Do I have this right?" They will confirm that with a nod or shake of the head or perhaps spoken words, one way or the other the matter is cleared up. Then we learn by asking. In the business world, in social settings, even with family and close friends…we learn what they believe, approve of, disapprove of and we act accordingly with respect to that.

I had to agree with my friend, this woman's comments at the board meeting were inappropriate. They went unacknowledged several times. Were that me, I'd see it as a red flag and stop, but this woman didn't stop, she kept going and that's just her way. I've always been so sensitive about honoring the paths of others, not everyone believes in spiritual terms as I do and I know that. So with that in mind I find it to be inappropriate to keep bringing it up. On the other hand, it's who this woman is. Astrology is her passion, she thinks in those terms so she speaks in them. It's just that for business purposes and even in social settings, it isn't always appropriate. I'm not sure she can see it that way though, I think it's just her being herself because after the meeting (and in the past) this was brought to her attention and she still continues to do it to this day.

I believe that there are manners that guide our ethics and we need to be discerning as to who really is open to it and who might be raising their eyebrows wondering about someone's sanity. The world is filled with skeptics. To others it's just as often an insult to their religious beliefs and perhaps even a strict taboo. You can't assume things like this, at least I don't feel I can. I don't like being preached to and so I try not to appear preachy to others. It's a pet peeve of mine that goes a long way back, but at least I go out of my way not to be. I'm known for going on about spirituality, don't get me wrong, I can talk it day and night, but I do that with like-minded individuals only.

I'll discuss such things with those who show me they are open to them and that's on a private level on up through business. Otherwise I don't address someone's beliefs or my own. (Religion and politics are tough areas to venture into blindly.) I think someone needs permission for something like that. That's my way of conducting myself, these things just sit differently with this woman who I'm using as an example here. She sees things as if she thinks everyone else does, it's all life to her, all intertwined as one and she doesn't separate them...she sees them as connected, as connected as the air we breathe. I do too but I hold that close until I know someone is open to it, and that's just not the case with her, she's simply being who she is.

You may find it amusing to know she told the Board of Directors that Mercury was going retrograde on the 2nd just prior to that at the last board meeting. At that time she warned them they would get nowhere with their projects until after the 25th. Now during the retrograde period these individuals made tremendous strides improving their projects and getting things synchronized for a huge push forward. They announced at this meeting that they were ready to move ahead to the final phase of completion. Her comment to them was "Seeeeeeee I told you that Mercury retrograde would cause delays to happen! Thank goodness we leave retrograde this weekend!" They all looked at her, no one said a thing. She'd totally dismissed how much did get done. That said, I think a few of the board members like her a lot and find her comments either as insignificant or perhaps even somewhat amusing. I think she wants to show them her insights to validate her prior comments as a way of impressing others. People in spiritual circles tend to discuss the retrograde activity of certain planets constantly...Saturn retrograde is always a hard lesson to learn. Mercury is always communication breakdowns, and when people fixate on that they call that to themselves too. Instead they can counter the stalemate or difficulty with preparation and a stronger focus on follow-up communications or expecting to learn something and be more observant instead...follow the prod to double-check instead of second-guessing yourself. But outside those circles where others don't understand the concepts and their implications, well to me it's just ethically inappropriate.

I'm starting this thread with an example of how our principles and ethics come into play, how they can vary in differing circumstances, and I'm hoping that we can open a discussion on ethics with examples. What are your views? What would you share with others that might be helpful guidelines? And what do you base your perspectives on?

Personally, I think this example is of unethical behavior given the circumstances as I would let those dictate. My pathwork is my profession. I Read for the public, I live a very spiritual life in the physical sense as a minister, and online I founded Spirit Lodge…these are areas where my beliefs and knowledge are appropriately shared. If out socializing and someone I just meet asks me about what I do in life I have no compunction about telling them. If they're shocked or insulted by that in anyway then I consider it their problem to sort out-and I'm more than willing to discuss or debate issues as long as that's being done courteously. If it's a personal attack or rude insults that come my way I simply tell them it's time to end the discussion. However, that said I do not push myself onto others. I wait to be asked. How do you feel about ethics and spirituality? Won't you share your views. I think this could lead to an interesting discussion and one that may well end up in our library at some point so I'm going to stick it at the top of this forum for the time being and see where it goes. Thank you to those willing to participate.

SwanFeather:
I have to deal with this all the time at the church where I work. While I can openly discuss spirituality to a certain extent, I have to be very careful how I language it. There are so many people at different points on their paths, some more accepting than others of "spiritual speak" than others. I can come off either "holier-than-thou," or a nut-case, or just plain "evil" depending on who is listening. Even before I moved out from strictly Christian thought to explore others, I had to learn how to read a person quickly as a minister's wife. It's not a case of pleasing people or bending to their will. I am who I am. But in order to communicate with others I need to speak in a language which they can "hear." This takes learning the skill of observation and a sensitivity to touch words in whatever setting I am in. This is a balance. Heck! I have certain touch words that get my goat because of past experience and/or my own truths. I tend to turn off when I hear them. We all do that. But in a business setting the focus is not spirituality....normally. Everything is spiritual, yes...but if you are working for a company who sells mining equipment, you don't go on and on about how their equipment rapes the earth, now do you? You'd be out of a job very quickly. So either you find another job to reflect your own beliefs or you language them so that you can keep your job.

Who knows, maybe you've been called to make changes in how their equipment can be more earth-friendly, so you learn the language and communicate in a manner the hearers will understand. But you more than likely don't get on a soapbox and preach at them. If you need a job sometimes you do what you need to do for a period of your life. But that calls for ethical behavior or you change your job in order to comfortably live within your own belief system. Ethical behavior allows you to live who you are and communicate with the general public. This does not exclude those times where it is appropriate to "take a stand" for that which one believes. Depending on how you language you can get amazing things across to people and give them great "Aha!" moments. But, of course, there are times when you are called to "shake the dust from your sandles" and move on. Your words may just fall on deaf ears no matter what. And that is ethical behavior, as well.

My 2 cents, FWIW.

RavenFireStoneWolf:
Hey Cinn, I have made the mistake, early in my path of bringing up my beliefs in business and social settings. It did not take long for me to find that it was best to keep my mouth shut. I rarely share my thoughts now unless I know that people are of a like mind. I might say that I have an interest in Celtic Lore or in Native Indian Lore, but that would be as far as I go. I rarely mention more specific ideas of how that interest shows itself in terms of words such as druidry or shamanism, as I have found that they scare the pants off people over here in the UK! No, I rarely discuss my path outside SL, even with other people who I know are following a spiritual path if it is different from my own. I don't share about my time here at the spiritualist centre I attend, nor what goes on there here. In the past that was different. Maybe we reach a point where we have accepted our path, and where we are on that path and no longer need to discuss it. Looking back now, I feel it was insecurity that caused me to constantly talk about my path. Of late, I rarely seem to share it here. I am going through a quiet inward phase as sharing does not seem as important right now as actually processing. I think we learn to accept our own processes too: and learn to feel when it is appropriate to discuss our path and when it is not. Rarely now do I do readings, though I will if asked as I sometimes am by those in the mundane who know of my path. Although I am intrigued by dream interpretations right now: maybe because symbols are important to me at this time and dreams often appear more. Okay, here I might offer a dream interpretation, but not in the mundane (other than to family or very close friends). I would certainly not do it at work, especially at a board meeting, and I certainly would not tell my colleagues what my guides had told me or what a tool had told me, even it related to them! I would just simply wait and see if what I had been told came to pass and deal with the resultants how I had been told to deal with them. Maybe the reason for this is that I seem to be working in more general terms right now.

A lot of what I am being shown is not to do with specific people, and this seems to be following through in the mundane as I work through the lessons the community association I am involved with brings. I agree with your comments about mercury retrograde and the fear calling aspects this brings forward. I am used to working with this energy on my own accord and with individual people, but this time, trying to work with a large group and with the wider community (ie the town hall) really caused me some stress, when in the past I seem to have handled it pretty well at least internally, even if I have struggled externally. It was actually quite funny in that I had come to SL the morning my puter crashed to read the Mercury retrograde page to see if there was any advice on how to deal with this scenario in a community setting. Well, my puter crashing certainly brought on a heap more stress as I really struggle without a puter these days at the best of times, as I use my puter as my journal: sometimes just typing something on the puter gets something out of my system. So when it goes down when I am relying on it to get newsletters and the likes out, set meeting agendas and prepare notes for meetings, it really gets to me. But I also think there are mundane scientific reasons to do with atoms and elements etc. why things go awry in such times. I do believe that there is truth in astrology. I think knowledge is a big help in any spiritual endeavor, knowledge of our own actions and reactions to particular situations: knowledge of what could affect or affect us, and knowledge of how to act and react to particular circumstances: and how all these things inform our actions in the mundane. As such, as I read your piece about the women who did not know when to keep her path to herself, or ignored her colleagues comments or lack thereof, it seemed to me that this was someone who was not fully aware in one of the sets of knowledge that inform us how to act and react in the mundane. I have a maxim I always stick to in business "if in doubt leave it out" (when writing a letter or report or in meetings or telecoms) and I have tended to stick to that maxim when discussing my spiritual life of late: like in business it has tended to keep me out of trouble!!

Earthwalker:
Cinnamon, My spiritual life for the most part is private and not discussed. Spirit Lodge is where I can share some of my spiritual path. I walk my spiritual path in my professional life, without semantics.

SwanFeather:
Earthwalker and Wolfie ~ I suppose the difference for me has been that I've worked mostly in spiritual arenas. When I haven't, I've kept it private. However, once someone finds out I've been a minister's wife...well, the proverbial cat's out of the burlap and folks are drawn to me to ask spiritual questions. So, my situation is a bit different.

CinnamonMoon:
SwanFeather, Earthwalker, and Wolfie...thank you! I'm not just addressing the business arena for spiritual ethics, it was the example I presented to open the discussion of ethical presentation of spiritual perspectives anywhere. When is it appropriate and when isn't it? And if you see things from a spiritual perspective how do you ethically present it in an arena where it's not appropriate? That type of thing, in my eyes, is a good way to look at how we walk our talk amid others who walk a different path and still do what we know is right, or still share our wisdom without sounding dogmatic or pushy. So ethically the question is ... how do we change the terms of expression in a way others can accept what we're saying? How do you ethically make your point without bringing the spiritual dialogue/semantics into play? How do you ethically keep the ego out of your insights and still share your wisdom? The woman I was exemplifying in this thread was so bent on proving she had insight, that she was right, that she had predicted things would come to pass based on her knowledge. What she wasn't seeing was that others were not open to her ways. So in a sense, as enlightened as she was, she didn't see her own tunnel vision. It is such a way of life that she sees no reason to differentiate it with others. Is that wrong? I think in this given setting it was an ethical issue. She could well have discredited the whole project and given the impression that she was a nut case. Mind you, this board room setting was comprised of individuals from various cultures, an international board, and that meant diverse religious, spiritual, and political beliefs were present. She didn't consider those things, only that she had been 'right'. She didn't comment on what they'd accomplished in the span of the Mercury retrograde period, all she saw was that now that it had moved forward the projects could move again. During that time this board worked very diligently on fine-tuning matters and getting things in order and they made tremendous improvements. They were feeling confused, dismissed, and as if everything the board had been discussing went right over her head. Her point was that astrological perspective and understanding that had nothing to do with their perspectives. Ethical tunnel-vision? I think so. Now mind you, there are many workplace settings where this kind of thing could happen. But it happens in life period, no matter where we are...school, social settings, in public in general. So my point is what's ethical presentation in any given situation and how is that handled? I'd like to see how our community sees this.

RavenFireStoneWolf:
Cinn, Although there are a number of points you make, the following seems central to me:

“And if you see things from a spiritual perspective how do you ethically present it in an arena where it's not appropriate?”

The only way I can describe how I present the information that I am given is that I don't. I use the knowledge I am given from my guides: I just prefer not to speak of that to others. If I were to speak of why, I would be seen as a crank-case as I work in a very macho environment. But I have also had to keep my own council in the community association I am involved with as I live in a very "matter of fact" sorta village. Sometimes I have had to stand firm, in light of the insights I have received, in the face of people who do not have the capacity to stand firm and would not appreciate why I am standing firm. This has been hard, but I know that if I had told people why I was standing firm I would have lost the opportunity to bring forward policies that will eventually be for the better good of the village. As an example of what I am talking about: the guys in our village play two main sports; soccer and cricket. The cricket team is very loose and not many youngsters in the village are playing cricket right now We have two sports fields: one that is playable and one that is not. Guidance told me that we should bring both fields up to a playable standard: but I could not go into a meeting of our association and say that: I would have been laughed out the door.

Instead I simply stood firm in my resolution that the soccer guys should not play on the cricket pitch (as the cricket pitch would not be usable for cricket if the soccer guys played on it), and we should seek funding to ensure the soccer pitch is brought back into use. By the end of September our football field will be renovated to be brought back into use. However, my decision to stand form was not popular as the soccer guys had little compassion for the guys who wanted to play cricket. So ethically, I would say that to stand up for what we know to be right is the way we show our ethical credentials: to treat everyone with courtesy and give all the opportunity to air their views and to not give preference to any one situation. Also to trust that the guidance we received shall come to pass and give the Universe the opportunity to bring the events we have received guidance about the time to come to pass. Also give those with whom we interact with the opportunity to come to a viewpoint that is right for the wider community and for themselves, rather than try and force them to come to this viewpoint. One guy in particular has been very vociferous in his objections to proposals I have put forward. I recognized straight away that his opposition is based on fear. He wrongly believes that the proposals I have put forward mean I am against soccer and soccer will not be played on the fields again. He resigned from the association committee in the hope that he would get his own way: but no-one on the committee has sided with him and he was not asked back (though he is aware that the door is always open). My feeling on the matter was to give him the opportunity to come to his own conclusions on the matter as guidance has told me he will come back once he sees the soccer field being repaired. I believe I am walking my talk by ensuring that every voice is being heard, especially those (like the cricket rep) who do not have a very load voice. I believe that I am walking my talk by being patient with those who have selfish motives. I further believe that I am walking my talk by being patient with the Universe and remaining trustful that things will turn out as guidance has revealed they will. I am sustaining personal criticism in the meantime, but I know that proposals I am putting forward will be for the higher good so, so be it: this is all part of the trust. But I still would not tell fellow association members that the reason I am working the way I am is because I have received psychic guidance on how things should proceed: I would lose all credibility and be unable to bring forward the plan guidance has told me I should bring forward. Now, if I was a member of the committee at the spiritualist center I attend, that would be a different matter: I would be very forthright in why I believed we should undertake a certain strategy. I think we have to temper our way of working according to the situation, but that this does not prevent us from walking our talk in any situation.

Earthwalker:
Cinnamon, I think this question is hard since there are so many different scenarios and the way I would respond is so dependent upon the scenario and the individuals involved. I think in some ways however that there is common ground and that common ground is respect for the other person. In conversation or anything we discuss we are trying to present a view but for the other person to understand what you are talking about it has to be present in a way in which they can relate to as opposed to you own truths.

If I was to get a person to think about diversity but to also understand commonality I need to use a model in which they can relate to. My director is a staunch conservative Christian. He has made his views very clear with comments such as anything that might come over from the other side is only evil when discussing a person who felt she had high empathy. I was also asked to leave his office one time when I innocently said prayer and meditation were essentially the same thing. To him one is good one and one is evil; no discussion just fact. Now you can all picture Earthwalker walking around furious. How do you even start to reach such a biased individual? Still, I knew I had to respect that he has a right to his beliefs and that they needed to be acknowledged just as I would expect the same from him. Therein I thought about how to at least give him food for thought so we talked about resolution factors in separation science. A resolution factor is an indicator that a species of components are separated in chromatography. Yet the way they are calculated are very different in the Japanese, European and US pharmacopeias. The goals are the same yet the cultural perspectives and differences are evidenced too. To this person who is very interested in religions “It’s a little like the differences in religions” might just slip in as a comment to yield some food for thought (as I walk out the door). Sometimes it is just a hint, sometimes it’s a debate, sometimes it’s a sharing of your thoughts but always it must be presented in terms of the other person. I always need to step outside of myself and try to see if I stood in the other person place what I would be looking for. Therein comments need to be present in respect for the other person views and ability to understand. If respect isn’t present then you are just talking for the sake of talking and it’s a waste of time. Sometimes the hardest part is getting to know the person well enough to present things in terms they will be open to. Sometimes you just need to ask questions and listen Other times if people are guarded conversation stays at what I call surface discussion. I believe this path I walk and discuss here for the most part is not accepted in the normal communities I work in. Therein I don’t discuss it except to say I have an interest in a greater dimension than the physical and I use the examples of being shown a small article that saved my sons life. The statistical odds were beyond coincidences. These opening will usually bring some type of a response or action from which I can gauge where the person is coming from. I then try to address things in respect for their perspectives. Cinnamon, I am not sure I actually answered your question but it’s the best I can do. The ethics is respect for the other person. When you go to someone’s home you remain yourself but in a manner that is respectful of the others homes and lifestyle.

EaglesHand:
Excellent topic, Cinn! While most of my colleagues know that I follow a spiritual path rather than a religious one, and most of them know that I have an interest in all things Shamanic.. this aspect of my life rarely is something that is discussed. I keep a little altar in my office right where I can see it but to others it appears to be an interesting collection of small objects (*Grin* and it's far enough on to the window ledge that it does not invite touching). I also keep an inspirational (to me - at the moment it's one with sayings from Buddhist practitioners) calendar on my wall and pictures from Susan Sedon Boulet. And just before I pick a call off our line I ask Spirit to guide me in addressing the caller's need in the most appropriate way. If you were to listen in to one of the calls it would probably sound rather dry and totally professional. But I am also reaching for the emotional/spiritual connection, listening with my "third ear", looking beyond the mere words to the needs unspoken. My colleagues sometimes laugh at me and tease because I have the reputation for pulling good solutions out of a proverbial hat ... I'll go looking for a hard to find appointment ... and Where there's one right there at the right clinic at the right time with just the perfect provider .... someone had a cancellation! Did it 3 times today in fact. But if I get Guidance on a larger issue ... one that impacts the team or the department or even just an individual on the team or in the department, I'll convey what I was told in a way they will all accept and understand. If I were to tell some of them the info came from Eagle or my Spirit Guide or one of the other animals who share things with me or that it came from a card reading ... well they might think to try to find one of those "special" appointments for me.

While most of the folks I work with are flexible, accepting, and spiritually aware people, I hear no call to push my way of looking at things in their faces. The few colleagues I know who walk a similar path I can talk to ... and when I *hear* from Spirit that a particular caller needs/will benefit from one of those individuals I will do my darndest to facilitate that connection. LOL when I was first hired here (for those who do not know me well, I work for a big bureaucratic HMO) I had to meet with the head of the department .. a wonderful woman psychiatrist who had a reputation for getting things done and being a stickler for details and for having a very particular way of doing things ... and for knowing where ALL the skeletons were hidden in the organization ;) When I went into her office I knew right away that I'd come to the right place! Her office was decorated with beautiful rocks, geodes, crystals, and items from her trips to the Southwest ... Native American items. And the windows faced South and West looking out across the river with a view of the distant hills. While she and I never discussed spiritual matters as such, we had a wonderful connection and she told me when she retired that I was one of only two people she ever hired "on the spot" without feeling the need to go think about the hiring before making an offer.

I think the language we use to convey whatever message we need to get across is very important - if the receiver cannot "hear" the words properly - if they react negatively to particular words or what we say is pushing their "that's evil" buttons - then we are not doing our "jobs" properly because the person or persons will not receive what they need to know. Like the woman you mentioned... she may have had good information and useful insights/strategies for the company but this was not being received by those she was trying to communicate with because they thought she was "a kook". IF she had been able to translate from her language of her experience/beliefs to their language of their experience/beliefs then maybe the information would have reached the others ... and been useful to them.

Jimmy WhiteBear:
Hmmmm, IS this woman still in business? There is a time and place for everything and announcing your business based in astrology or any other spiritual modality is professional suicide. It is always good to be spiritually minded in all we do but!, preaching to the board of directors is no less than those who come knocking on our doors trying to carry the word and convert us. Certainly for me it takes away from the credibility of Spirituality and religion. In my profession it is very important that I remain in Spiritually minded state but to get up on the soapbox scares the hell out of my client(s). Good luck to her!...

Marila:
Bear, you wrote: “There is a time a place for everything...” Yes - otherwise it would be ignoring the situation, the place, the time - and the others; and it would be - more or less - starting from "I" and "me" only...

Northernwolf:
I agree with the other wolf here. I keep my mouth shut. I too flaunted it at one point and got me nothing except strange looks. Some people might like to shock others but that isn’t me, at least not with my spirituality. I mostly don’t discuss it expect with close friends and even then I can always make it pass as being a way to perceive things and arrive at solutions, very down to earth. As for you other questions, I'll have to think about them some more and maybe an answer will come. I mostly don’t discuss it to be honest. Like I was trying to say above I just present it as a series of tools and that is how it passes the best. A shift in perspective and symbols that enable to through their recognition to " think " outside the box and thus come to conclusion that I might not have come to "normally".

Now at some point of course to me that expresses itself in other spheres as well although I tend to focus more on my spirituality when there are problems though. So as lame as it may sound it is in some way a series of tool.

But I found that when presented as mind-frames and perspective without getting into: can talk to my guides thing , it comes across pretty well. If going a bit deeper in it in a conversation then totems and other animals because symbols to be interpreted.

Other than that, and it may be my generation here, it's surprising how many people actually have an opening in regards to energy work, in the sense that at some point they believe an aspect of that works, i.e.: no coincidences, sensing a person’s presence, intuition, precognition and things like that. It's imbedded in the culture of younger generations it seems or at least some of the principles are.

EagleSinging:
Well, I've been thinking about this thread for a few days now. In that time, SwanFeather, Eagles and Earthwalker have summed up how I walk my path, share my knowledge, in the professional world. What I do, the words I choose, and when I say something are dependent on many factors. The past six months or so, I’ve been wondering if I should do more. Interesting take isn’t it, given how careful I tend to be about sharing and avoid being seen as “weird” and not normal? I am processing this as I’m typing; I’m thinking “out loud”. Thanks for bearing with me. Cinn, this woman in your example, I take it she is a member of the board and not a presenter? I ask because if she was a member of the board then she was on that board because of her experience and knowledge in the business community - I'd assume. If she was a presenter, they I'd assume she was brought to the board meeting to share her insights - which I trust were not her astrological profession given the board's reaction. Her role at the board meeting would certainly play a role in how I evaluate your example. The ethical questions of when do we say something, when do we share, and how do we do that, I believe is based on respect for the other person and the situation involved. There is another question I've been pondering though. Do I have an obligation to not only walk my path and show by example, but to also be proactive in guiding and sharing what I know? This is different than walking my spiritual path quietly. Do I have an ethical obligation, a spiritual obligation, to open dialogue with others when Spirit provides a window? The window isn't just when I'm specifically asked. The window is something I need to navigate with Spirit's guidance.

It is not preaching, fixing other’s problems, being dogmatic or sharing things that I’m clearly guided not to share, nor about sharing “how” I received this guidance whether through meditation, journeying, card reading, intuitive knowing, Spirit’s messengers….etc. As part of this human race I have an obligation to do what I can to enhance this world and the lives of others? Sure, I do that by being kind and caring for others, but do I have an obligation to do more by gently nudging others? I do that by listening to Spirit's guidance on matters concerning others. I think the answer is “yes.” How I do that is a separate question. It seems to me that on one extreme there is the situation where people shove their religions and spirituality down other’s throats. On the other extreme there are people who never dare to say or do anything and keep it all to themselves out of fear of reprisals and reproach but who have so much to share. When I consider this, I keep coming back to “how” do I share. Without doubt, there are times I am guided to not share, not say a word, not flinch and let things play out. But, there are times when I think I need to softly, respectfully and gently step up, and those times are more often than I currently think they are. Just because someone isn’t receptive to my beliefs on spiritually, doesn’t mean that they won’t be receptive to the message. The obligation I’m talking about is of course based on respect for the other person - as SwanFeather, Earthwalker and Eagles so wonderfully put it. When I hear others verbally bashing or maligning someone (professionally or personally) and I remain quiet, I acquiesce in their behavior. When I have a friend who is venting a personal situation, sometimes I have an obligation beyond listening to gently guide them; to offer insights I may have to give them "something to think about", some additional information, for their choices and their journey. If they are not receptive, they are not receptive, but don't I have an obligation to do more than simply live my own life? Don’t I have an ethical obligation to try to make this world a better place?

Cinn, the woman in your example spoke and shared blindly, in my opinion. The messages she wanted to convey were fine, but there were better and more influential and lasting ways for her to have got her message across. The content of her message was important to share. In my opinion, this woman missed the most crucial part of the exchange she wanted; she failed to gauge her audience. If she had done that she would have been effective because whether she was at that board meeting as a board member or a guest presenter she was given the floor to speak, she had an invitation to speak. Like I said, I’ve been thinking about this issue for quite a while now. What is my role? How active is my role as I walk my path? These are the types of questions I am asking myself, and like I said, I think sharing my insights and wisdom is not limited to environments where I have carefully come to understand how I’ll be received. As an example, none of the friends in my physical life (excluding this cyber forum) believe as I believe, but over the years I say something here and there about their situations and offer what I am guided to do, and they have all been very accepting of me and come to me when their issues seem more than they can handle…..even the over-the-top conservative Christian friend and she is very aware of my spirituality. Sure, I got some queer looks now and then. I knew at the time I was pushing the edges of their comfort envelop. For me, it comes back to “how” and “when” do I share the gifts Creator has entrusted to me, not whether or not I should. And, I believe that there are more opportunities to share than there are moments not to share. Now I need a shower and a cup of joe.

CinnamonMoon:
Thank you for joining in EagleSinging, The question isn't relative only to the professional world, but life in general. It was merely an example to get the discussion going. Your comments about discerning the receptivity of others is one of the points I wanted to make...so important. How it's shared is important too. Personally I believe that we can receive in spiritual ways the insights to share and that there are times we need to adapt what we've been shown to a situation. We can always say "The way I see this circumstance is that _____________". We don't have to say "Guidance just came through and ___________" as people aren't always open to how we receive and how we receive isn't as important as what we are told to share. Again my point with the woman, the situation was not conducive to astrological vernacular or predictions. They didn't want predictions, they wanted facts that were tangible to their intentions. (Yes, she sat on the board itself. ) I agree that the ethics of sharing our spiritual perceptions are based on respect for others and their beliefs--whether we know about them or not. I also believe that there is an ethical obligation to pass on what we're shown through guidance...that's another area, not just forcing our beliefs on others being wrong, but that there are times we are given insights and must discern how to present them in useful ways or keep our mouths shut. We're not here to stir things up but ease the passages of those we're given messages for.

Sometimes we confuse messages with insights too. There are times when I'm with an individual or group and I'm given insight into matters that is not necessarily meant to be shared with them, it's there so I know how to interact and when or where to refrain from involvement. Learning what to share has come to me by feeling it, letting it pass through me, see how it feels and only if it feels to be the right thing do I pass it on when I'm given a choice. There are other times there is no choice, guidance comes through and takes over...the message gets delivered through the words coming out of my mouth over which I have no control. In that kind of instance I'm often found to say: "Now where did that come from?" Then laugh. If they want to embrace it and take it further they will, otherwise I leave those seeds alone. Ethics, for me, are rules of conduct, they play into any given situation and there are always variances. So I agree, if it's helpful it should be shared, if not then we should keep it to ourselves and use it to monitor our own responses and actions. I see things in individuals all the time, but I don't always address what I'm shown, I use it to work with them as a way of better understanding how they process or behave (i.e.: Totems showing themselves to me, their spirits coming forward and showing their light to be dim, bright, and everything in-between, guidance whispering about them in my ear, a general 'feel' as to what they're hiding or not saying.). I just feel that ethical behavior says there's a time and place for everything and if the spiritual insight does not fit the situation, if it would stand out like a sore thumb, then it's a behind the scenes sharing with an individual or silence that's called for. I agree with you...it's 'how' we share or 'when' that matters.

“Do I have an ethical obligation, a spiritual obligation, to open dialogue with others when Spirit provides a window? The window isn't just when I'm specifically asked. The window is something I need to navigate with Spirit's guidance. It is not preaching, fixing other’s problems, being dogmatic or sharing things that I’m clearly guided not to share, nor about sharing “how” I received this guidance whether through meditation, journeying, card reading, intuitive knowing, Spirit’s messengers….etc.” If there's a window provided then I'd say yes, there is an ethical obligation to open that dialogue...but with discretion, consideration for the environment that window opens into, and again the 'how' comes into play there.

“As part of this human race I have an obligation to do what I can to enhance this world and the lives of others? Sure, I do that by being kind and caring for others, but do I have an obligation to do more by gently nudging others? I do that by listening to Spirit's guidance on matters concerning others. I think the answer is “yes.” How I do that is a separate question.”

Exactly!

“When I have a friend who is venting a personal situation, sometimes I have an obligation beyond listening to gently guide them; to offer insights I may have to give them "something to think about", some additional information, for their choices and their journey. If they are not

receptive, they are not receptive, but don't I have an obligation to do more than simply live my own life? Don’t I have an ethical obligation to try to make this world a better place?”

Yes, I think we all have that ethical obligation to make things better. Most certainly. But your example of giving someone something to 'think about' is what I call 'dropping feathers'. I make a statement (minus spiritual semantics) and let it fall to the floor. If they want to pick that feather/statement up and examine it that's up to them. When I do this I go silent or leave a room or shift focus immediately. It's there if they want it and if they don't take it up that's fine too. At that point I can see I delivered the mail and they can do with it as they see fit. If they do pick it up, if they do open to it and want to take it further then I am more than happy to respond further...but they have to ask and I believe it's the asking on their part that indicates whether sharing more is ethical or not. It prevents the force-feeding of information others aren't necessarily ready to digest.

“Cinn, the woman in your example spoke and shared blindly, in my opinion. The messages she wanted to convey were fine, but there were better and more influential and lasting ways for her to have got her message across.”

I couldn't agree more.

“The content of her message was important to share. In my opinion, this woman missed the most crucial part of the exchange she wanted; she failed to gauge her audience. If she had done that she would have been effective because whether she was at that board meeting as a board member or a guest presenter she was given the floor to speak, she had an invitation to speak.”

Yes, and because she didn't speak to the issues being addressed but used the opportunity to point to her predictive expertise and say "see...you should have listened to me, I was right, I know what I'm talking about and my ways are powerful" (basically) she was perceived as addle-minded by some, full of herself by others, and dismissed by the rest. The message she was trying to deliver was inappropriately presented. She could have jiggled the verbiage a bit and done just fine. It cost her and she didn't see that either, the price was in their respect for her opinions.

“Like I said, I’ve been thinking about this issue for quite a while now. What is my role? How active is my role as I walk my path? These are the types of questions I am asking myself, and like I said, I think sharing my insights and wisdom is not limited to environments where I have carefully come to understand how I’ll be received.”

Exactly!

“Sure, I got some queer looks now and then. I knew at the time I was pushing the edges of their comfort envelop.”

But that feeling of pushing their comfort zone boundaries is conscious awareness of the "how" and "when" and "how much" that guides us ethically when we heed what we're sensing about them through their responses. A great guideline to follow.

EagleSinging:
Cinn, if only I could find the words to speak as articulate about spiritual matters, as you and others at SL do. I often struggle to find the vocabulary to distinguish and clarify what I want to say. I really like your point about messages versus insights. When I am not clear on whether it is a message to be shared (which is most of the time ) or an insight I am given an answer if I ask for clarification. There are distinct times I receive insights that are for my own information. There are times I wonder "why" I was given that information, but over time those insights are valuable in future situations and encounters. This thread has brought to me an openness to continue my personal inquiries into "when is it appropriate to share", "what is appropriate to share," and "how do I share." The discussion has helped me flush this out a bit more.

“But your example of giving someone something to 'think about' is what I call 'dropping feathers'.”

Cinn, I love this expression, and I've seen you use it before, I believe. I love the imagery. That is what I strive to do, and the image helps me remember to refrain from doing more than that unless and until they invite me. It takes courage on my part to share messages. When I stop and debate whether I share or not, I usually don't do it. I find that when I ask Spirit to guide me to bring assistance or make a positive difference in some one's (anyone) day that I am much more in line with guidance and I find that I more freely and unconsciously drop those "feathers" even to people I've never met before. In these situations, I am sometimes amazed at what comes out of my mouth, but it is never hurtful and most of the time the other person's expression, tells me it was intended. This experience is so beautifully rich.

CinnamonMoon:
Hi EagleSinging, Articulation comes over time, just be yourself, that's all that's needed and let the rest take care of itself. I just have a passion for words, love 'em! It's more important that you stay true to yourself and your way of expressing. Simple is pure and it's clean. Even if one has the vocabulary to draw from it doesn't always come across clearly either. So people can ask for more if they need it and they should. I sure do. There is a big difference between the insights and messages we're given. Messages need delivery, insights are usually for personal use unless the person has asked us to look into something along those lines with them. The insights help us interact according to their needs with a bit more understanding as to where they may be open or blocked, what attributes they work with that we can help them bring out in themselves to grow stronger, that kind of thing. Sometimes they help us know what direction to point people in and then we're just to let them go and continue their own explorations. Whatever the case they're usually interactive information. Messages, IMHO, need to be delivered, they were given to us for that purpose. It's for us to use the insight we hold so we know 'how' to deliver them though. They work hand in hand just as often as not.

“When I am not clear on whether it is a message to be shared (which is most of the time ) or an insight I am given an answer if I ask for clarification.”

Yes. We just need to remember the secret word: *Ask!* Ha! It's so easy to forget to do that. When we ask we receive every time. Even in the silence that sometimes exists, there is an answer: Until you hear the silence broken keep silent.

“This thread has brought to me an openness to continue my personal inquiries into "when is it appropriate to share", "what is appropriate to share," and "how do I share." The discussion has helped me flush this out a bit more.”

Excellent! That's my intention...to get us thinking and talking about these things so we are better able to hone ourselves and our own growth. If there's nowhere to share thoughts and feelings about it you end up chasing your own tail so hopefully it's doing the same for others too. Thank you for saying so!

“Cinn, I love this expression, and I've seen you use it before, I believe. I love the imagery. That is what I strive to do, and the image helps me remember to refrain from doing more than that unless and until they invite me.”

If it gives you the image you need then you're welcome to it! *Soft smile* I like the phrase myself, I get the image with it every time too.

“It takes courage on my part to share messages. When I stop and debate whether I share or not, I usually don't do it.”

You're not alone. But once you get the hang of how things work it becomes second nature. If in doubt ask, and if it's clear trust that Spirit gave it to you for a reason. Keep it simple, Sweetie. You're doing great with your techniques.

“I find that when I ask Spirit to guide me to bring assistance or make a positive difference in some one's (anyone) day that I am much more in line with guidance and I find that I more freely and unconsciously drop those "feathers" even to people I've never met before.”

Yes! You know something that helps me is starting each day with a little connective prayer to Spirit and my guidance. I simply say: "Walk with me, talk with me, show me the way." It keeps me aware of their presence too, and attuned as you say. I'm talking to them all day long. LOL

“In these situations, I am sometimes amazed at what comes out of my mouth, but it is never hurtful and most of the time the other person's expression, tells me it was intended.” Yep! Spirit doesn't give us messages or use us in this way to hurt anyone. And like you say, their expressions tell you when you've hit the mark. They're stunned and wondering just how you knew that. My daughter has a friend that responds to those "how did you know?" questions with: "My Fairy Godmother told me. How she does that I haven't figured out yet but she does." It's a cute way to avert specifics if you don't feel they're appropriate.

“This experience is so beautifully rich.”

It is, isn't it? I'm enjoying it too.

StarBearWalking:
Greetings! Very good comments here. I understand the concept, but I have a hard time keeping my mouth shut. I have a hard time playing the game in any social setting. I'm trying to learn how to have discretion, but I just end up not saying anything at all

Minna:
Hello. This made me think of the old Star Trek puzzle. I know Mizz has struggled with this. I have too. The Good of the One? Or The Good of the Many? To me, it is how The One is treated which will affect the good of The Many. But that's just the way I think. Or does it change ~ sometimes it's about the good of the one or the good of the many, depending on the place or the situation? If one seems to be causing what we define as a disruption do we look at that one to see what is going on? If anything is needed? Do we address it? Ask if they need help? Or for the good of the many do we deal firmly with that one, or just ignore it until it offends someone. Does it depend on the One, and the One dealing with it? Now in Hollywood there's the movies where they say, "Give us that One and you others can all go free." What do you do - is it situational, personal? Just thinking out loud.

CinnamonMoon:
Hi Minna, I'm not familiar with the Star Trek stuff so I'm having a bit of a puzzle trying to follow you here. Let's see if I can though okay?

“The Good of the One? or The Good of the Many? To me, it is how The One is treated which will affect the good of The Many. But that's just the way i think. Or does it change ~ sometimes it's about the good of the one or the good of the many, depending on the place or the situation?”

I think those statements are part of a whole or overview. To answer I'd like to use the example of a teacher in a classroom trying to conduct lessons. If the class is following her the lessons run smoothly there's no disruption to the flow, she can see who's struggling and attend their need to keep the whole cohesive. But sometimes that doesn't happen and one student will act up. If the student acting up is left to their own devices the class will be disrupted, taken off the lesson and into the antics of the class clown or deviant child. If that teacher were to ignore the antics is she helping the whole? Not in my eyes. In that instance the teacher would need to tend to the one to serve the whole. So with that said, I believe that the latter in your summation applies and yes, it depends on the situation one is faced with. You can take this example out of the classroom and apply it to any circumstance in life when you think about it.

“If one seems to be causing what we define as a disruption do we look at that one to see what is going on? If anything is needed? Do we address it? Ask if they need help?”

Again, and using the classroom setting, I would say it depends on the circumstances and agenda. Sometimes a teacher will quietly go to the student causing the disruption and a gentle nudge is all it takes to restore order, sometimes the student needs to be sent to the Principal's Office or receives detention for ignoring the teacher's requests. I guess you could say it depended on how that student reacted to the teacher's corrective efforts.

“Or for the good of the many do we deal firmly with that one, or just ignore it until it offends someone. Does it depend on the One, and the One dealing with it?”

I'm not sure I understand where you're going with this but I think I just answered you. LOL

“Now in Hollywood there's the movies where they say, "Give us that One and you others can all go free." What do you do - is it situational, personal?”

Are you talking a criminal situation? Someone who has broken social regulation and needs to be removed to the justice system? I'm confused by this too, I'm afraid.

“Just thinking out loud.”

Just trying to follow you. *Winks*

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