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Spiritual Ethics Discussion
by Cinnamon Moon
I thought I'd share a conversation
I had with a friend not long ago. We were looking into the ethical
interaction others have in the business arena where spirituality
is concerned along with the reactions of others who are unprepared
for that type of presentation. A woman I knew was in a board
meeting and using astrology to base her concepts on where business
matters were concerned. Now in and of itself I see nothing wrong
with that but she was making her presentation and addressing
those points of reference. On the other end of that the board
members were non-believers in many cases, and what she was albeit
addressing held some good points in general.
Now the woman presenting has a firm
spiritual path, it's a way of life for her but she was quickly
losing credibility as it became obvious that her associates
were ignoring her comments--she seemed oblivious to it. Her
own beliefs were so ingrained in her nature that she obviously
didn't differentiate this as something that might be inappropriate.
Now I'm aware that close business acquaintances often form familiarity
in relationships, enough were we can forget ourselves and let
our guard down a little, it happens to all of us. But this individual
was setting an example of the elements of business according
to her spiritual beliefs and presenting it as the validation
of what she had 'predicted' would happen. It was presented to
individuals whom she had no knowledge of their spiritual beliefs
or their religious persuasions, she just put it all on a platter
and handed it to them. No one at that meeting acknowledged her
comments. Not one person. Were they insulted? Were they thinking
she was a 'space case'? Was it appropriate of her to make such
comments? Had she crossed a line? How would you know for certain?
Considering that the response to
her comments was silence it can be assumed that no one wanted
to insult her. It appeared too that no one wanted to acknowledge
the comments were not 'on topic', no one wanted to say anything.
What were they thinking though? Was this presentation ethical
and where do ethics play into one's spirituality? How do you
*know* when nothing's being said? Well, you'd have to go back
to that situation, watch their reactions, their body language,
their facial expressions, their eyes, then you'd know…you
know that unspoken language. How often do you use it yourself?
It's that same reading into situations that allows us to communicate
and understand our Spirit Helpers when they come to us…we
don't all hear their voices in the literal sense. Some of us
see them and hear nothing so it's all gestures and symbols.
Sometimes it's a mixture of different senses…how do we
know how to understand them…we observe the nuances. We
learn to read what they're telling us. We ask if we are confused:
"Do I have this right?" They will confirm that with
a nod or shake of the head or perhaps spoken words, one way
or the other the matter is cleared up. Then we learn by asking.
In the business world, in social settings, even with family
and close friends…we learn what they believe, approve of,
disapprove of and we act accordingly with respect to that.
I had to agree with my friend, this
woman's comments at the board meeting were inappropriate. They
went unacknowledged several times. Were that me, I'd see it
as a red flag and stop, but this woman didn't stop, she kept
going and that's just her way. I've always been so sensitive
about honoring the paths of others, not everyone believes in
spiritual terms as I do and I know that. So with that in mind
I find it to be inappropriate to keep bringing it up. On the
other hand, it's who this woman is. Astrology is her passion,
she thinks in those terms so she speaks in them. It's just that
for business purposes and even in social settings, it isn't
always appropriate. I'm not sure she can see it that way though,
I think it's just her being herself because after the meeting
(and in the past) this was brought to her attention and she
still continues to do it to this day.
I believe that there are manners
that guide our ethics and we need to be discerning as to who
really is open to it and who might be raising their eyebrows
wondering about someone's sanity. The world is filled with skeptics.
To others it's just as often an insult to their religious beliefs
and perhaps even a strict taboo. You can't assume things like
this, at least I don't feel I can. I don't like being preached
to and so I try not to appear preachy to others. It's a pet
peeve of mine that goes a long way back, but at least I go out
of my way not to be. I'm known for going on about spirituality,
don't get me wrong, I can talk it day and night, but I do that
with like-minded individuals only.
I'll discuss such things with those
who show me they are open to them and that's on a private level
on up through business. Otherwise I don't address someone's
beliefs or my own. (Religion and politics are tough areas to
venture into blindly.) I think someone needs permission for
something like that. That's my way of conducting myself, these
things just sit differently with this woman who I'm using as
an example here. She sees things as if she thinks everyone else
does, it's all life to her, all intertwined as one and she doesn't
separate them...she sees them as connected, as connected as
the air we breathe. I do too but I hold that close until I know
someone is open to it, and that's just not the case with her,
she's simply being who she is.
You may find it amusing to know
she told the Board of Directors that Mercury was going retrograde
on the 2nd just prior to that at the last board meeting. At
that time she warned them they would get nowhere with their
projects until after the 25th. Now during the retrograde period
these individuals made tremendous strides improving their projects
and getting things synchronized for a huge push forward. They
announced at this meeting that they were ready to move ahead
to the final phase of completion. Her comment to them was "Seeeeeeee
I told you that Mercury retrograde would cause delays to happen!
Thank goodness we leave retrograde this weekend!" They
all looked at her, no one said a thing. She'd totally dismissed
how much did get done. That said, I think a few of the board
members like her a lot and find her comments either as insignificant
or perhaps even somewhat amusing. I think she wants to show
them her insights to validate her prior comments as a way of
impressing others. People in spiritual circles tend to discuss
the retrograde activity of certain planets constantly...Saturn
retrograde is always a hard lesson to learn. Mercury is always
communication breakdowns, and when people fixate on that they
call that to themselves too. Instead they can counter the stalemate
or difficulty with preparation and a stronger focus on follow-up
communications or expecting to learn something and be more observant
instead...follow the prod to double-check instead of second-guessing
yourself. But outside those circles where others don't understand
the concepts and their implications, well to me it's just ethically
inappropriate.
I'm starting this thread with an
example of how our principles and ethics come into play, how
they can vary in differing circumstances, and I'm hoping that
we can open a discussion on ethics with examples. What are your
views? What would you share with others that might be helpful
guidelines? And what do you base your perspectives on?
Personally, I think this example
is of unethical behavior given the circumstances as I would
let those dictate. My pathwork is my profession. I Read for
the public, I live a very spiritual life in the physical sense
as a minister, and online I founded Spirit Lodge…these
are areas where my beliefs and knowledge are appropriately shared.
If out socializing and someone I just meet asks me about what
I do in life I have no compunction about telling them. If they're
shocked or insulted by that in anyway then I consider it their
problem to sort out-and I'm more than willing to discuss or
debate issues as long as that's being done courteously. If it's
a personal attack or rude insults that come my way I simply
tell them it's time to end the discussion. However, that said
I do not push myself onto others. I wait to be asked. How do
you feel about ethics and spirituality? Won't you share your
views. I think this could lead to an interesting discussion
and one that may well end up in our library at some point so
I'm going to stick it at the top of this forum for the time
being and see where it goes. Thank you to those willing to participate.
SwanFeather:
I have
to deal with this all the time at the church where I work. While
I can openly discuss spirituality to a certain extent, I have
to be very careful how I language it. There are so many people
at different points on their paths, some more accepting than
others of "spiritual speak" than others. I can come
off either "holier-than-thou," or a nut-case, or just
plain "evil" depending on who is listening. Even before
I moved out from strictly Christian thought to explore others,
I had to learn how to read a person quickly as a minister's
wife. It's not a case of pleasing people or bending to their
will. I am who I am. But in order to communicate with others
I need to speak in a language which they can "hear."
This takes learning the skill of observation and a sensitivity
to touch words in whatever setting I am in. This is a balance.
Heck! I have certain touch words that get my goat because of
past experience and/or my own truths. I tend to turn off when
I hear them. We all do that. But in a business setting the focus
is not spirituality....normally. Everything is spiritual, yes...but
if you are working for a company who sells mining equipment,
you don't go on and on about how their equipment rapes the earth,
now do you? You'd be out of a job very quickly. So either you
find another job to reflect your own beliefs or you language
them so that you can keep your job.
Who knows, maybe
you've been called to make changes in how their equipment can
be more earth-friendly, so you learn the language and communicate
in a manner the hearers will understand. But you more than likely
don't get on a soapbox and preach at them. If you need a job
sometimes you do what you need to do for a period of your life.
But that calls for ethical behavior or you change your job in
order to comfortably live within your own belief system. Ethical
behavior allows you to live who you are and communicate with
the general public. This does not exclude those times where
it is appropriate to "take a stand" for that which
one believes. Depending on how you language you can get amazing
things across to people and give them great "Aha!"
moments. But, of course, there are times when you are called
to "shake the dust from your sandles" and move on.
Your words may just fall on deaf ears no matter what. And that
is ethical behavior, as well.
My 2 cents, FWIW.
RavenFireStoneWolf:
Hey
Cinn, I have made the mistake, early in my path of bringing
up my beliefs in business and social settings. It did not take
long for me to find that it was best to keep my mouth shut.
I rarely share my thoughts now unless I know that people are
of a like mind. I might say that I have an interest in Celtic
Lore or in Native Indian Lore, but that would be as far as I
go. I rarely mention more specific ideas of how that interest
shows itself in terms of words such as druidry or shamanism,
as I have found that they scare the pants off people over here
in the UK! No, I rarely discuss my path outside SL, even with
other people who I know are following a spiritual path if it
is different from my own. I don't share about my time here at
the spiritualist centre I attend, nor what goes on there here.
In the past that was different. Maybe we reach a point where
we have accepted our path, and where we are on that path and
no longer need to discuss it. Looking back now, I feel it was
insecurity that caused me to constantly talk about my path.
Of late, I rarely seem to share it here. I am going through
a quiet inward phase as sharing does not seem as important right
now as actually processing. I think we learn to accept our own
processes too: and learn to feel when it is appropriate to discuss
our path and when it is not. Rarely now do I do readings, though
I will if asked as I sometimes am by those in the mundane who
know of my path. Although I am intrigued by dream interpretations
right now: maybe because symbols are important to me at this
time and dreams often appear more. Okay, here I might offer
a dream interpretation, but not in the mundane (other than to
family or very close friends). I would certainly not do it at
work, especially at a board meeting, and I certainly would not
tell my colleagues what my guides had told me or what a tool
had told me, even it related to them! I would just simply wait
and see if what I had been told came to pass and deal with the
resultants how I had been told to deal with them. Maybe the
reason for this is that I seem to be working in more general
terms right now.
A lot of
what I am being shown is not to do with specific people, and
this seems to be following through in the mundane as I work
through the lessons the community association I am involved
with brings. I agree with your comments about mercury retrograde
and the fear calling aspects this brings forward. I am used
to working with this energy on my own accord and with individual
people, but this time, trying to work with a large group and
with the wider community (ie the town hall) really caused me
some stress, when in the past I seem to have handled it pretty
well at least internally, even if I have struggled externally.
It was actually quite funny in that I had come to SL the morning
my puter crashed to read the Mercury retrograde page to see
if there was any advice on how to deal with this scenario in
a community setting. Well, my puter crashing certainly brought
on a heap more stress as I really struggle without a puter these
days at the best of times, as I use my puter as my journal:
sometimes just typing something on the puter gets something
out of my system. So when it goes down when I am relying on
it to get newsletters and the likes out, set meeting agendas
and prepare notes for meetings, it really gets to me. But I
also think there are mundane scientific reasons to do with atoms
and elements etc. why things go awry in such times. I do believe
that there is truth in astrology. I think knowledge is a big
help in any spiritual endeavor, knowledge of our own actions
and reactions to particular situations: knowledge of what could
affect or affect us, and knowledge of how to act and react to
particular circumstances: and how all these things inform our
actions in the mundane. As such, as I read your piece about
the women who did not know when to keep her path to herself,
or ignored her colleagues comments or lack thereof, it seemed
to me that this was someone who was not fully aware in one of
the sets of knowledge that inform us how to act and react in
the mundane. I have a maxim I always stick to in business "if
in doubt leave it out" (when writing a letter or report
or in meetings or telecoms) and I have tended to stick to that
maxim when discussing my spiritual life of late: like in business
it has tended to keep me out of trouble!!
Earthwalker:
Cinnamon,
My spiritual life for the most part is private and not discussed.
Spirit Lodge is where I can share some of my spiritual path.
I walk my spiritual path in my professional life, without semantics.
SwanFeather:
Earthwalker and Wolfie ~ I suppose the difference
for me has been that I've worked mostly in spiritual arenas.
When I haven't, I've kept it private. However, once someone
finds out I've been a minister's wife...well, the proverbial
cat's out of the burlap and folks are drawn to me to ask spiritual
questions. So, my situation is a bit different.
CinnamonMoon:
SwanFeather, Earthwalker,
and Wolfie...thank you! I'm not just addressing the business
arena for spiritual ethics, it was the example I presented to
open the discussion of ethical presentation of spiritual perspectives
anywhere. When is it appropriate and when isn't it? And if you
see things from a spiritual perspective how do you ethically
present it in an arena where it's not appropriate? That type
of thing, in my eyes, is a good way to look at how we walk our
talk amid others who walk a different path and still do what
we know is right, or still share our wisdom without sounding
dogmatic or pushy. So ethically the question is ... how do we
change the terms of expression in a way others can accept what
we're saying? How do you ethically make your point without bringing
the spiritual dialogue/semantics into play? How do you ethically
keep the ego out of your insights and still share your wisdom?
The woman I was exemplifying in this thread was so bent on proving
she had insight, that she was right, that she had predicted
things would come to pass based on her knowledge. What she wasn't
seeing was that others were not open to her ways. So in a sense,
as enlightened as she was, she didn't see her own tunnel vision.
It is such a way of life that she sees no reason to differentiate
it with others. Is that wrong? I think in this given setting
it was an ethical issue. She could well have discredited the
whole project and given the impression that she was a nut case.
Mind you, this board room setting was comprised of individuals
from various cultures, an international board, and that meant
diverse religious, spiritual, and political beliefs were present.
She didn't consider those things, only that she had been 'right'.
She didn't comment on what they'd accomplished in the span of
the Mercury retrograde period, all she saw was that now that
it had moved forward the projects could move again. During that
time this board worked very diligently on fine-tuning matters
and getting things in order and they made tremendous improvements.
They were feeling confused, dismissed, and as if everything
the board had been discussing went right over her head. Her
point was that astrological perspective and understanding that
had nothing to do with their perspectives. Ethical tunnel-vision?
I think so. Now mind you, there are many workplace settings
where this kind of thing could happen. But it happens in life
period, no matter where we are...school, social settings, in
public in general. So my point is what's ethical presentation
in any given situation and how is that handled? I'd like to
see how our community sees this.
RavenFireStoneWolf:
Cinn, Although there are
a number of points you make, the following seems central to
me:
“And if you see things from
a spiritual perspective how do you ethically present it in an
arena where it's not appropriate?”
The only way I can describe how I
present the information that I am given is that I don't. I use
the knowledge I am given from my guides: I just prefer not to
speak of that to others. If I were to speak of why, I would
be seen as a crank-case as I work in a very macho environment.
But I have also had to keep my own council in the community
association I am involved with as I live in a very "matter
of fact" sorta village. Sometimes I have had to stand firm,
in light of the insights I have received, in the face of people
who do not have the capacity to stand firm and would not appreciate
why I am standing firm. This has been hard, but I know that
if I had told people why I was standing firm I would have lost
the opportunity to bring forward policies that will eventually
be for the better good of the village. As an example of what
I am talking about: the guys in our village play two main sports;
soccer and cricket. The cricket team is very loose and not many
youngsters in the village are playing cricket right now We have
two sports fields: one that is playable and one that is not.
Guidance told me that we should bring both fields up to a playable
standard: but I could not go into a meeting of our association
and say that: I would have been laughed out the door.
Instead I simply stood firm in my
resolution that the soccer guys should not play on the cricket
pitch (as the cricket pitch would not be usable for cricket
if the soccer guys played on it), and we should seek funding
to ensure the soccer pitch is brought back into use. By the
end of September our football field will be renovated to be
brought back into use. However, my decision to stand form was
not popular as the soccer guys had little compassion for the
guys who wanted to play cricket. So ethically, I would say that
to stand up for what we know to be right is the way we show
our ethical credentials: to treat everyone with courtesy and
give all the opportunity to air their views and to not give
preference to any one situation. Also to trust that the guidance
we received shall come to pass and give the Universe the opportunity
to bring the events we have received guidance about the time
to come to pass. Also give those with whom we interact with
the opportunity to come to a viewpoint that is right for the
wider community and for themselves, rather than try and force
them to come to this viewpoint. One guy in particular has been
very vociferous in his objections to proposals I have put forward.
I recognized straight away that his opposition is based on fear.
He wrongly believes that the proposals I have put forward mean
I am against soccer and soccer will not be played on the fields
again. He resigned from the association committee in the hope
that he would get his own way: but no-one on the committee has
sided with him and he was not asked back (though he is aware
that the door is always open). My feeling on the matter was
to give him the opportunity to come to his own conclusions on
the matter as guidance has told me he will come back once he
sees the soccer field being repaired. I believe I am walking
my talk by ensuring that every voice is being heard, especially
those (like the cricket rep) who do not have a very load voice.
I believe that I am walking my talk by being patient with those
who have selfish motives. I further believe that I am walking
my talk by being patient with the Universe and remaining trustful
that things will turn out as guidance has revealed they will.
I am sustaining personal criticism in the meantime, but I know
that proposals I am putting forward will be for the higher good
so, so be it: this is all part of the trust. But I still would
not tell fellow association members that the reason I am working
the way I am is because I have received psychic guidance on
how things should proceed: I would lose all credibility and
be unable to bring forward the plan guidance has told me I should
bring forward. Now, if I was a member of the committee at the
spiritualist center I attend, that would be a different matter:
I would be very forthright in why I believed we should undertake
a certain strategy. I think we have to temper our way of working
according to the situation, but that this does not prevent us
from walking our talk in any situation.
Earthwalker:
Cinnamon, I think this question
is hard since there are so many different scenarios and the
way I would respond is so dependent upon the scenario and the
individuals involved. I think in some ways however that there
is common ground and that common ground is respect for the other
person. In conversation or anything we discuss we are trying
to present a view but for the other person to understand what
you are talking about it has to be present in a way in which
they can relate to as opposed to you own truths.
If I was to get a person to think about
diversity but to also understand commonality I need to use a
model in which they can relate to. My director is a staunch
conservative Christian. He has made his views very clear with
comments such as anything that might come over from the other
side is only evil when discussing a person who felt she had
high empathy. I was also asked to leave his office one time
when I innocently said prayer and meditation were essentially
the same thing. To him one is good one and one is evil; no discussion
just fact. Now you can all picture Earthwalker walking around
furious. How do you even start to reach such a biased individual?
Still, I knew I had to respect that he has a right to his beliefs
and that they needed to be acknowledged just as I would expect
the same from him. Therein I thought about how to at least give
him food for thought so we talked about resolution factors in
separation science. A resolution factor is an indicator that
a species of components are separated in chromatography. Yet
the way they are calculated are very different in the Japanese,
European and US pharmacopeias. The goals are the same yet the
cultural perspectives and differences are evidenced too. To
this person who is very interested in religions “It’s
a little like the differences in religions” might just
slip in as a comment to yield some food for thought (as I walk
out the door). Sometimes it is just a hint, sometimes it’s
a debate, sometimes it’s a sharing of your thoughts but
always it must be presented in terms of the other person. I
always need to step outside of myself and try to see if I stood
in the other person place what I would be looking for. Therein
comments need to be present in respect for the other person
views and ability to understand. If respect isn’t present
then you are just talking for the sake of talking and it’s
a waste of time. Sometimes the hardest part is getting to know
the person well enough to present things in terms they will
be open to. Sometimes you just need to ask questions and listen
Other times if people are guarded conversation stays at what
I call surface discussion. I believe this path I walk and discuss
here for the most part is not accepted in the normal communities
I work in. Therein I don’t discuss it except to say I have
an interest in a greater dimension than the physical and I use
the examples of being shown a small article that saved my sons
life. The statistical odds were beyond coincidences. These opening
will usually bring some type of a response or action from which
I can gauge where the person is coming from. I then try to address
things in respect for their perspectives. Cinnamon, I am not
sure I actually answered your question but it’s the best
I can do. The ethics is respect for the other person. When you
go to someone’s home you remain yourself but in a manner
that is respectful of the others homes and lifestyle.
EaglesHand:
Excellent topic, Cinn! While
most of my colleagues know that I follow a spiritual path rather
than a religious one, and most of them know that I have an interest
in all things Shamanic.. this aspect of my life rarely is something
that is discussed. I keep a little altar in my office right
where I can see it but to others it appears to be an interesting
collection of small objects (*Grin* and it's far enough on to
the window ledge that it does not invite touching). I also keep
an inspirational (to me - at the moment it's one with sayings
from Buddhist practitioners) calendar on my wall and pictures
from Susan Sedon Boulet. And just before I pick a call off our
line I ask Spirit to guide me in addressing the caller's need
in the most appropriate way. If you were to listen in to one
of the calls it would probably sound rather dry and totally
professional. But I am also reaching for the emotional/spiritual
connection, listening with my "third ear", looking
beyond the mere words to the needs unspoken. My colleagues sometimes
laugh at me and tease because I have the reputation for pulling
good solutions out of a proverbial hat ... I'll go looking for
a hard to find appointment ... and Where there's one right there
at the right clinic at the right time with just the perfect
provider .... someone had a cancellation! Did it 3 times today
in fact. But if I get Guidance on a larger issue ... one that
impacts the team or the department or even just an individual
on the team or in the department, I'll convey what I was told
in a way they will all accept and understand. If I were to tell
some of them the info came from Eagle or my Spirit Guide or
one of the other animals who share things with me or that it
came from a card reading ... well they might think to try to
find one of those "special" appointments for me.
While most of the folks I work with are
flexible, accepting, and spiritually aware people, I hear no
call to push my way of looking at things in their faces. The
few colleagues I know who walk a similar path I can talk to
... and when I *hear* from Spirit that a particular caller needs/will
benefit from one of those individuals I will do my darndest
to facilitate that connection. LOL when I was first hired here
(for those who do not know me well, I work for a big bureaucratic
HMO) I had to meet with the head of the department .. a wonderful
woman psychiatrist who had a reputation for getting things done
and being a stickler for details and for having a very particular
way of doing things ... and for knowing where ALL the skeletons
were hidden in the organization ;) When I went into her office
I knew right away that I'd come to the right place! Her office
was decorated with beautiful rocks, geodes, crystals, and items
from her trips to the Southwest ... Native American items. And
the windows faced South and West looking out across the river
with a view of the distant hills. While she and I never discussed
spiritual matters as such, we had a wonderful connection and
she told me when she retired that I was one of only two people
she ever hired "on the spot" without feeling the need
to go think about the hiring before making an offer.
I think the language we use to convey
whatever message we need to get across is very important - if
the receiver cannot "hear" the words properly - if
they react negatively to particular words or what we say is
pushing their "that's evil" buttons - then we are
not doing our "jobs" properly because the person or
persons will not receive what they need to know. Like the woman
you mentioned... she may have had good information and useful
insights/strategies for the company but this was not being received
by those she was trying to communicate with because they thought
she was "a kook". IF she had been able to translate
from her language of her experience/beliefs to their language
of their experience/beliefs then maybe the information would
have reached the others ... and been useful to them.
Jimmy WhiteBear:
Hmmmm, IS this woman still
in business? There is a time and place for everything and announcing
your business based in astrology or any other spiritual modality
is professional suicide. It is always good to be spiritually
minded in all we do but!, preaching to the board of directors
is no less than those who come knocking on our doors trying
to carry the word and convert us. Certainly for me it takes
away from the credibility of Spirituality and religion. In my
profession it is very important that I remain in Spiritually
minded state but to get up on the soapbox scares the hell out
of my client(s). Good luck to her!...
Marila:
Bear, you
wrote: “There is a time a place for everything...”
Yes - otherwise it would be ignoring the situation, the place,
the time - and the others; and it would be - more or less -
starting from "I" and "me" only...
Northernwolf:
I agree with the other
wolf here. I keep my mouth shut. I too flaunted it at one point
and got me nothing except strange looks. Some people might like
to shock others but that isn’t me, at least not with my
spirituality. I mostly don’t discuss it expect with close
friends and even then I can always make it pass as being a way
to perceive things and arrive at solutions, very down to earth.
As for you other questions, I'll have to think about them some
more and maybe an answer will come. I mostly don’t discuss
it to be honest. Like I was trying to say above I just present
it as a series of tools and that is how it passes the best.
A shift in perspective and symbols that enable to through their
recognition to " think " outside the box and thus
come to conclusion that I might not have come to "normally".
Now at some point of course to
me that expresses itself in other spheres as well although I
tend to focus more on my spirituality when there are problems
though. So as lame as it may sound it is in some way a series
of tool.
But I found that when presented
as mind-frames and perspective without getting into: can talk
to my guides thing , it comes across pretty well. If going a
bit deeper in it in a conversation then totems and other animals
because symbols to be interpreted.
Other than that, and it may be
my generation here, it's surprising how many people actually
have an opening in regards to energy work, in the sense that
at some point they believe an aspect of that works, i.e.: no
coincidences, sensing a person’s presence, intuition, precognition
and things like that. It's imbedded in the culture of younger
generations it seems or at least some of the principles are.
EagleSinging:
Well,
I've been thinking about this thread for a few days now. In
that time, SwanFeather, Eagles and Earthwalker have summed up
how I walk my path, share my knowledge, in the professional
world. What I do, the words I choose, and when I say something
are dependent on many factors. The past six months or so, I’ve
been wondering if I should do more. Interesting take isn’t
it, given how careful I tend to be about sharing and avoid being
seen as “weird” and not normal? I am processing this
as I’m typing; I’m thinking “out loud”.
Thanks for bearing with me. Cinn, this woman in your example,
I take it she is a member of the board and not a presenter?
I ask because if she was a member of the board then she was
on that board because of her experience and knowledge in the
business community - I'd assume. If she was a presenter, they
I'd assume she was brought to the board meeting to share her
insights - which I trust were not her astrological profession
given the board's reaction. Her role at the board meeting would
certainly play a role in how I evaluate your example. The ethical
questions of when do we say something, when do we share, and
how do we do that, I believe is based on respect for the other
person and the situation involved. There is another question
I've been pondering though. Do I have an obligation to not only
walk my path and show by example, but to also be proactive in
guiding and sharing what I know? This is different than walking
my spiritual path quietly. Do I have an ethical obligation,
a spiritual obligation, to open dialogue with others when Spirit
provides a window? The window isn't just when I'm specifically
asked. The window is something I need to navigate with Spirit's
guidance.
It is not
preaching, fixing other’s problems, being dogmatic or sharing
things that I’m clearly guided not to share, nor about
sharing “how” I received this guidance whether through
meditation, journeying, card reading, intuitive knowing, Spirit’s
messengers….etc. As part of this human race I have an obligation
to do what I can to enhance this world and the lives of others?
Sure, I do that by being kind and caring for others, but do
I have an obligation to do more by gently nudging others? I
do that by listening to Spirit's guidance on matters concerning
others. I think the answer is “yes.” How I do that
is a separate question. It seems to me that on one extreme there
is the situation where people shove their religions and spirituality
down other’s throats. On the other extreme there are people
who never dare to say or do anything and keep it all to themselves
out of fear of reprisals and reproach but who have so much to
share. When I consider this, I keep coming back to “how”
do I share. Without doubt, there are times I am guided to not
share, not say a word, not flinch and let things play out. But,
there are times when I think I need to softly, respectfully
and gently step up, and those times are more often than I currently
think they are. Just because someone isn’t receptive to
my beliefs on spiritually, doesn’t mean that they won’t
be receptive to the message. The obligation I’m talking
about is of course based on respect for the other person - as
SwanFeather, Earthwalker and Eagles so wonderfully put it. When
I hear others verbally bashing or maligning someone (professionally
or personally) and I remain quiet, I acquiesce in their behavior.
When I have a friend who is venting a personal situation, sometimes
I have an obligation beyond listening to gently guide them;
to offer insights I may have to give them "something to
think about", some additional information, for their choices
and their journey. If they are not receptive, they are not receptive,
but don't I have an obligation to do more than simply live my
own life? Don’t I have an ethical obligation to try to
make this world a better place?
Cinn, the
woman in your example spoke and shared blindly, in my opinion.
The messages she wanted to convey were fine, but there were
better and more influential and lasting ways for her to have
got her message across. The content of her message was important
to share. In my opinion, this woman missed the most crucial
part of the exchange she wanted; she failed to gauge her audience.
If she had done that she would have been effective because whether
she was at that board meeting as a board member or a guest presenter
she was given the floor to speak, she had an invitation to speak.
Like I said, I’ve been thinking about this issue for quite
a while now. What is my role? How active is my role as I walk
my path? These are the types of questions I am asking myself,
and like I said, I think sharing my insights and wisdom is not
limited to environments where I have carefully come to understand
how I’ll be received. As an example, none of the friends
in my physical life (excluding this cyber forum) believe as
I believe, but over the years I say something here and there
about their situations and offer what I am guided to do, and
they have all been very accepting of me and come to me when
their issues seem more than they can handle…..even the
over-the-top conservative Christian friend and she is very aware
of my spirituality. Sure, I got some queer looks now and then.
I knew at the time I was pushing the edges of their comfort
envelop. For me, it comes back to “how” and “when”
do I share the gifts Creator has entrusted to me, not whether
or not I should. And, I believe that there are more opportunities
to share than there are moments not to share. Now I need a shower
and a cup of joe.
CinnamonMoon:
Thank you for joining in
EagleSinging, The question isn't relative only to the professional
world, but life in general. It was merely an example to get
the discussion going. Your comments about discerning the receptivity
of others is one of the points I wanted to make...so important.
How it's shared is important too. Personally I believe that
we can receive in spiritual ways the insights to share and that
there are times we need to adapt what we've been shown to a
situation. We can always say "The way I see this circumstance
is that _____________". We don't have to say "Guidance
just came through and ___________" as people aren't always
open to how we receive and how we receive isn't as important
as what we are told to share. Again my point with the woman,
the situation was not conducive to astrological vernacular or
predictions. They didn't want predictions, they wanted facts
that were tangible to their intentions. (Yes, she sat on the
board itself. ) I agree that the ethics of sharing our spiritual
perceptions are based on respect for others and their beliefs--whether
we know about them or not. I also believe that there is an ethical
obligation to pass on what we're shown through guidance...that's
another area, not just forcing our beliefs on others being wrong,
but that there are times we are given insights and must discern
how to present them in useful ways or keep our mouths shut.
We're not here to stir things up but ease the passages of those
we're given messages for.
Sometimes we confuse messages with
insights too. There are times when I'm with an individual or
group and I'm given insight into matters that is not necessarily
meant to be shared with them, it's there so I know how to interact
and when or where to refrain from involvement. Learning what
to share has come to me by feeling it, letting it pass through
me, see how it feels and only if it feels to be the right thing
do I pass it on when I'm given a choice. There are other times
there is no choice, guidance comes through and takes over...the
message gets delivered through the words coming out of my mouth
over which I have no control. In that kind of instance I'm often
found to say: "Now where did that come from?" Then
laugh. If they want to embrace it and take it further they will,
otherwise I leave those seeds alone. Ethics, for me, are rules
of conduct, they play into any given situation and there are
always variances. So I agree, if it's helpful it should be shared,
if not then we should keep it to ourselves and use it to monitor
our own responses and actions. I see things in individuals all
the time, but I don't always address what I'm shown, I use it
to work with them as a way of better understanding how they
process or behave (i.e.: Totems showing themselves to me, their
spirits coming forward and showing their light to be dim, bright,
and everything in-between, guidance whispering about them in
my ear, a general 'feel' as to what they're hiding or not saying.).
I just feel that ethical behavior says there's a time and place
for everything and if the spiritual insight does not fit the
situation, if it would stand out like a sore thumb, then it's
a behind the scenes sharing with an individual or silence that's
called for. I agree with you...it's 'how' we share or 'when'
that matters.
“Do I have an ethical obligation,
a spiritual obligation, to open dialogue with others when Spirit
provides a window? The window isn't just when I'm specifically
asked. The window is something I need to navigate with Spirit's
guidance. It is not preaching, fixing other’s problems,
being dogmatic or sharing things that I’m clearly guided
not to share, nor about sharing “how” I received this
guidance whether through meditation, journeying, card reading,
intuitive knowing, Spirit’s messengers….etc.”
If there's a window provided then I'd say yes, there is an ethical
obligation to open that dialogue...but with discretion, consideration
for the environment that window opens into, and again the 'how'
comes into play there.
“As part of this human race
I have an obligation to do what I can to enhance this world
and the lives of others? Sure, I do that by being kind and caring
for others, but do I have an obligation to do more by gently
nudging others? I do that by listening to Spirit's guidance
on matters concerning others. I think the answer is “yes.”
How I do that is a separate question.”
Exactly!
“When I have a friend who is
venting a personal situation, sometimes I have an obligation
beyond listening to gently guide them; to offer insights I may
have to give them "something to think about", some
additional information, for their choices and their journey.
If they are not
receptive, they are not receptive,
but don't I have an obligation to do more than simply live my
own life? Don’t I have an ethical obligation to try to
make this world a better place?”
Yes, I think we all have that ethical
obligation to make things better. Most certainly. But your example
of giving someone something to 'think about' is what I call
'dropping feathers'. I make a statement (minus spiritual semantics)
and let it fall to the floor. If they want to pick that feather/statement
up and examine it that's up to them. When I do this I go silent
or leave a room or shift focus immediately. It's there if they
want it and if they don't take it up that's fine too. At that
point I can see I delivered the mail and they can do with it
as they see fit. If they do pick it up, if they do open to it
and want to take it further then I am more than happy to respond
further...but they have to ask and I believe it's the asking
on their part that indicates whether sharing more is ethical
or not. It prevents the force-feeding of information others
aren't necessarily ready to digest.
“Cinn, the woman in your example
spoke and shared blindly, in my opinion. The messages she wanted
to convey were fine, but there were better and more influential
and lasting ways for her to have got her message across.”
I couldn't agree more.
“The content of her message
was important to share. In my opinion, this woman missed the
most crucial part of the exchange she wanted; she failed to
gauge her audience. If she had done that she would have been
effective because whether she was at that board meeting as a
board member or a guest presenter she was given the floor to
speak, she had an invitation to speak.”
Yes, and because she didn't speak
to the issues being addressed but used the opportunity to point
to her predictive expertise and say "see...you should have
listened to me, I was right, I know what I'm talking about and
my ways are powerful" (basically) she was perceived as
addle-minded by some, full of herself by others, and dismissed
by the rest. The message she was trying to deliver was inappropriately
presented. She could have jiggled the verbiage a bit and done
just fine. It cost her and she didn't see that either, the price
was in their respect for her opinions.
“Like I said, I’ve been
thinking about this issue for quite a while now. What is my
role? How active is my role as I walk my path? These are the
types of questions I am asking myself, and like I said, I think
sharing my insights and wisdom is not limited to environments
where I have carefully come to understand how I’ll be received.”
Exactly!
“Sure, I got some queer looks
now and then. I knew at the time I was pushing the edges of
their comfort envelop.”
But that feeling of pushing their
comfort zone boundaries is conscious awareness of the "how"
and "when" and "how much" that guides us
ethically when we heed what we're sensing about them through
their responses. A great guideline to follow.
EagleSinging:
Cinn,
if only I could find the words to speak as articulate about
spiritual matters, as you and others at SL do. I often struggle
to find the vocabulary to distinguish and clarify what I want
to say. I really like your point about messages versus insights.
When I am not clear on whether it is a message to be shared
(which is most of the time ) or an insight I am given an answer
if I ask for clarification. There are distinct times I receive
insights that are for my own information. There are times I
wonder "why" I was given that information, but over
time those insights are valuable in future situations and encounters.
This thread has brought to me an openness to continue my personal
inquiries into "when is it appropriate to share",
"what is appropriate to share," and "how do I
share." The discussion has helped me flush this out a bit
more.
“But
your example of giving someone something to 'think about' is
what I call 'dropping feathers'.”
Cinn, I love
this expression, and I've seen you use it before, I believe.
I love the imagery. That is what I strive to do, and the image
helps me remember to refrain from doing more than that unless
and until they invite me. It takes courage on my part to share
messages. When I stop and debate whether I share or not, I usually
don't do it. I find that when I ask Spirit to guide me to bring
assistance or make a positive difference in some one's (anyone)
day that I am much more in line with guidance and I find that
I more freely and unconsciously drop those "feathers"
even to people I've never met before. In these situations, I
am sometimes amazed at what comes out of my mouth, but it is
never hurtful and most of the time the other person's expression,
tells me it was intended. This experience is so beautifully
rich.
CinnamonMoon:
Hi EagleSinging, Articulation
comes over time, just be yourself, that's all that's needed
and let the rest take care of itself. I just have a passion
for words, love 'em! It's more important that you stay true
to yourself and your way of expressing. Simple is pure and it's
clean. Even if one has the vocabulary to draw from it doesn't
always come across clearly either. So people can ask for more
if they need it and they should. I sure do. There is a big difference
between the insights and messages we're given. Messages need
delivery, insights are usually for personal use unless the person
has asked us to look into something along those lines with them.
The insights help us interact according to their needs with
a bit more understanding as to where they may be open or blocked,
what attributes they work with that we can help them bring out
in themselves to grow stronger, that kind of thing. Sometimes
they help us know what direction to point people in and then
we're just to let them go and continue their own explorations.
Whatever the case they're usually interactive information. Messages,
IMHO, need to be delivered, they were given to us for that purpose.
It's for us to use the insight we hold so we know 'how' to deliver
them though. They work hand in hand just as often as not.
“When I am not clear on whether
it is a message to be shared (which is most of the time ) or
an insight I am given an answer if I ask for clarification.”
Yes. We just need to remember the
secret word: *Ask!* Ha! It's so easy to forget to do that. When
we ask we receive every time. Even in the silence that sometimes
exists, there is an answer: Until you hear the silence broken
keep silent.
“This thread has brought to
me an openness to continue my personal inquiries into "when
is it appropriate to share", "what is appropriate
to share," and "how do I share." The discussion
has helped me flush this out a bit more.”
Excellent! That's my intention...to
get us thinking and talking about these things so we are better
able to hone ourselves and our own growth. If there's nowhere
to share thoughts and feelings about it you end up chasing your
own tail so hopefully it's doing the same for others too. Thank
you for saying so!
“Cinn, I love this expression,
and I've seen you use it before, I believe. I love the imagery.
That is what I strive to do, and the image helps me remember
to refrain from doing more than that unless and until they invite
me.”
If it gives you the image you need
then you're welcome to it! *Soft smile* I like the phrase myself,
I get the image with it every time too.
“It takes courage on my part
to share messages. When I stop and debate whether I share or
not, I usually don't do it.”
You're not alone. But once you get
the hang of how things work it becomes second nature. If in
doubt ask, and if it's clear trust that Spirit gave it to you
for a reason. Keep it simple, Sweetie. You're doing great with
your techniques.
“I find that when I ask Spirit
to guide me to bring assistance or make a positive difference
in some one's (anyone) day that I am much more in line with
guidance and I find that I more freely and unconsciously drop
those "feathers" even to people I've never met before.”
Yes! You know something that helps
me is starting each day with a little connective prayer to Spirit
and my guidance. I simply say: "Walk with me, talk with
me, show me the way." It keeps me aware of their presence
too, and attuned as you say. I'm talking to them all day long.
LOL
“In these situations, I am sometimes
amazed at what comes out of my mouth, but it is never hurtful
and most of the time the other person's expression, tells me
it was intended.” Yep! Spirit doesn't give us messages
or use us in this way to hurt anyone. And like you say, their
expressions tell you when you've hit the mark. They're stunned
and wondering just how you knew that. My daughter has a friend
that responds to those "how did you know?" questions
with: "My Fairy Godmother told me. How she does that I
haven't figured out yet but she does." It's a cute way
to avert specifics if you don't feel they're appropriate.
“This experience is so beautifully
rich.”
It is, isn't it? I'm enjoying it
too.
StarBearWalking:
Greetings! Very good
comments here. I understand the concept, but I have a hard time
keeping my mouth shut. I have a hard time playing the game in
any social setting. I'm trying to learn how to have discretion,
but I just end up not saying anything at all
Minna:
Hello. This made me think of
the old Star Trek puzzle. I know Mizz has struggled with this.
I have too. The Good of the One? Or The Good of the Many? To
me, it is how The One is treated which will affect the good
of The Many. But that's just the way I think. Or does it change
~ sometimes it's about the good of the one or the good of the
many, depending on the place or the situation? If one seems
to be causing what we define as a disruption do we look at that
one to see what is going on? If anything is needed? Do we address
it? Ask if they need help? Or for the good of the many do we
deal firmly with that one, or just ignore it until it offends
someone. Does it depend on the One, and the One dealing with
it? Now in Hollywood there's the movies where they say, "Give
us that One and you others can all go free." What do you
do - is it situational, personal? Just thinking out loud.
CinnamonMoon:
Hi Minna, I'm not familiar
with the Star Trek stuff so I'm having a bit of a puzzle trying
to follow you here. Let's see if I can though okay?
“The Good of the One? or The
Good of the Many? To me, it is how The One is treated which
will affect the good of The Many. But that's just the way i
think. Or does it change ~ sometimes it's about the good of
the one or the good of the many, depending on the place or the
situation?”
I think those statements are part
of a whole or overview. To answer I'd like to use the example
of a teacher in a classroom trying to conduct lessons. If the
class is following her the lessons run smoothly there's no disruption
to the flow, she can see who's struggling and attend their need
to keep the whole cohesive. But sometimes that doesn't happen
and one student will act up. If the student acting up is left
to their own devices the class will be disrupted, taken off
the lesson and into the antics of the class clown or deviant
child. If that teacher were to ignore the antics is she helping
the whole? Not in my eyes. In that instance the teacher would
need to tend to the one to serve the whole. So with that said,
I believe that the latter in your summation applies and yes,
it depends on the situation one is faced with. You can take
this example out of the classroom and apply it to any circumstance
in life when you think about it.
“If one seems to be causing
what we define as a disruption do we look at that one to see
what is going on? If anything is needed? Do we address it? Ask
if they need help?”
Again, and using the classroom setting,
I would say it depends on the circumstances and agenda. Sometimes
a teacher will quietly go to the student causing the disruption
and a gentle nudge is all it takes to restore order, sometimes
the student needs to be sent to the Principal's Office or receives
detention for ignoring the teacher's requests. I guess you could
say it depended on how that student reacted to the teacher's
corrective efforts.
“Or for the good of the many
do we deal firmly with that one, or just ignore it until it
offends someone. Does it depend on the One, and the One dealing
with it?”
I'm not sure I understand where you're
going with this but I think I just answered you. LOL
“Now in Hollywood there's the
movies where they say, "Give us that One and you others
can all go free." What do you do - is it situational, personal?”
Are you talking a criminal situation?
Someone who has broken social regulation and needs to be removed
to the justice system? I'm confused by this too, I'm afraid.
“Just thinking out loud.”
Just trying to follow you. *Winks*
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Libraries
are on this row
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INDEX
Page 3
(Main Section, Medicine Wheel, Native Languages &
Nations, Symbology)
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INDEX
Page 5
(Sacred Feminine & Masculine, Stones & Minerals)
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©
Copyright: Cinnamon Moon & River WildFire Moon (Founders.)
2000-date
All rights reserved.
Site
constructed by Dragonfly
Dezignz 1998-date
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