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Classic vs Core
Shamanism Discussion
By 2CrowWoman
I recently found this comparison
of Classic and Core Shamanism. Interesting reading. "shamanism
types compared" link
CinnamonMoon:
A great
article, Crow, thank you so much for sharing it.
Marila:
thank you,
Crow... I was with a "classic" shamanic teacher -
and I also attended basic teachings from Michael Harner´s
Foundation in core shamanism, too. Both worked fine - for me
both held "value"... *smile* In classic shamanism
it was a deep touch words cannot say - this was my first contact
with shamanism. It might be that for others it is similar also
with core shamanism...Who "chooses" the path? Do we
choose the path - or does the path choose us? Or is it a co-creative
path...? *smile* to you so much, dear Crow...
StarryNight:
I
enjoyed the article, Crow. I was unaware of the different named
classifications, but I understand that people come to Shamanism
on different paths, that people receive and give for different
purposes and reasons, and that for some it is a title/identity
and for others a way of living. However, I pause to wonder why
the necessity to distinguish the approaches. Do you know anything
about the author? I'm a little unsteady about the message of
the article, despite enjoying the read. Perhaps, it is my emotional
reaction to the text. I'll ponder it some more.
SwanFeather:
Interesting
article, Crow. I wondered about the author, myself. I think
there are likely more than two distinctions, but I get her basic
premise. Thanks!
StarSister:
I
enjoyed it, it answered some feelings I had. Thanks Crow.
2CrowWoman:
Cinn, SwanFeather and StarSister,
glad you enjoyed reading it. Marila
“Who "chooses" the
path? Do we choose the path - or does the path choose us? Or
is it a co-creative path...? *smile*”
I think choice number three - the
co-creative path. StarryNight I don't know anything about the
author. I liked the article because it summed up clearly and
simply information I'd read elsewhere about "classic"
shamanism, but never found anyone who
did a simple summary of "core"
shamanism.. Well.. except for articles here at Spirit Lodge
that Cinnamon has written.
“I'm a little unsteady about
the message of the article, despite enjoying the read. Perhaps,
it is my emotional reaction to the text.”
I hope you learn lots through your
reaction and pondering. I know I always have. The first time
I read an article on shamanic death and some of the harsher
beliefs/ways in some forms of aboriginal/classic shamanism I
was quite shocked. But I was viewing other cultures through
my own subjective eyes. Personally. I liked the clear easy to
understand layout of this article, but I think a time may come
when the differences between the types of shamanism become irrelevant.
My personal belief is that the past, our heritage and ancestry,
are our foundation, but not our future. The future of human
spirituality is evolving and I strongly suspect that all forms
will eventually find their "borders" blurring as we
move forward. I see this article on the types of shamanism more
as a guide to who we have been and are becoming than a strict
set of "rules" we have to judge ourselves by.. or
adhere to. But that's just my opinion.
WolfScout:
“Personally.
I liked the clear easy to understand layout of this article,
but I think a time may come when the differences between the
types of shamanism become irrelevant. My personal belied is
that the past, our heritage and ancestry, are our foundation,
but not our future. The future of human spirituality is evolving
and I strongly suspect that all forms will eventually find their
"borders" blurring as we move forward. I see this
article on the types of shamanism more as a guide to who we
have been and are becoming than a strict set of "rules"
we have to judge ourselves by.. or adhere to. But that's just
my opinion.”
I agree. I think shamanism
takes on a different meaning as it applies to what that person
learns whether it be from an elder, a group, or through books
and research because of lack of the two previous. Does that
change the ability of the individual , not to me. I think it's
important to have the "Urgings" to become involved
and seek.
StarBearWalking:
Greetings! Thank you for
sharing this with us. I found it to be a little confusing, as
labels usually are.
“Why are there so few "classic
Shamans" in the white Western demograhic?”
IMHO! Because over the centuries
we have given our power away to the priest or pastor or vicar.
Long, long time ago we too were connected to the Spirit of Place.
I honor any Indigenous peoples who have kept their connection
to the Spirits of Place. And I give Thanks to those who are
willing to reteach us who have lost that connection, even if
we must reconnect with Spirits of Place which are new to our
DNA. A’ho!
WolfScout:
I agree with Bear
on his post. Our Culture is trying to gain back Core beliefs
not the term "core shamanism" the author seems to
be coining. Also, as I read somewhere else
“Harner talks about
core beliefs...not core shamanism...as a way to draw parallels
between the beliefs of the shamans of very widely separated
geographical and cultural areas. This isn't at all the same
thing as what the author is referring to here, or trying to
imply is what Michael is teaching. I think that is key to the
article as well.
Minna:
Thank you too, Crow (Ha,
2Crow...gettit?) I accidentally made a pun . Good for me. I
also enjoyed this article as well as a couple of others on the
site. There was one about the intellectual/academic who interviews
the shaman which I found very interesting. And one about the
word 'shaman' which I very much enjoyed reading. I like the
writing style of this person. I'm typing now on Bear's laptop,
as my little puter's at the doctor. So please scuse any ~ more
than normal ~ typing errors. Gosh I miss my clicky mouse. No
e-mail either. Anyway, thank you too for this site. I may go
and look around a bit.
CinnamonMoon:
There is
a big difference between shamanism (the belief and practice
for personal needs) and being a shaman too. Being a shaman is
a calling and that's what's being addressed in the 'classic'
aspect here. (IMHO) Practicing shamanism is the 'core' aspect.
It's like practicing witchery, that doesn't make you a witch.
Living it does. Living the shamanic life in service to Spirit
and your community makes you a shaman. Traditionally or not.
If you do the work that's what you are. If you build houses
formally you're a contractor, whether you have a formal degree
or not, you're a builder. Tradition dictates within the tradition
but if you have no tradition and are called then you'll be shown
several options that all hold what you're looking for. One of
my first Medicine teachers expressed this to me in pointing
out that if there is no teacher present and you need one, Spirit
will create the lesson through experience, guide you to someone
to help you, and take you on a journey of learning. The elements
of nature will come into play and take over too. Over the years
I experienced this on many levels and found it to be true. The
Spirits of Place will teach us if we open to them and through
them the elemental spirits Dance with us too. I love those lessons.
They have a natural flow to them, and I find them to be customized
in a way that makes them so appropriate for how I process things.
It's the soft eye and ear though...because we need them to see
it for what it is. Look back on your own journey, how Pat came
into your life and others like her and unlike her to teach you
things. Look at those who challenged you with the Shadow Lessons
and those who brought you through lessons of Light. It all happened
for a reason and as you grew in understanding you began to see
what was what. It worked to get you where you are today and
you've just blossomed so beautifully! You're able to walk forward
now with conviction because of it. Yeah, it's hard knowing what's
right at times, but all we have to do is turn to guidance with
right intent and ask the 'right' question to find our answers.
Then it's just a matter of trusting what we're shown and the
process ahead of us to get us through.
Marila:
(((Cinn))),
thank you for the deep aspects you shared here...
StarBearWalking:
Spirit doesn't give up
on us, love to supportive Teachers also.
Minna:
Hi, there. Cinnamon, I liked this
that you said: “There is a big difference between shamanism
(the belief and practice for personal needs) and being a shaman
too. Being a shaman is a calling and that's what's being addressed
in the 'classic' aspect here.”
That's nice. I had to figure that out
for myself too. It finally came to me how to explain, when people
ask, "Are you a shaman?" (As if....) I just reply,
is every Roman Catholic you know a priest? It's nice, they figure
it out really quick. Ok, so I'm really an eclectic whatever,
and it's not a philosophically correct statement. But it does
the trick. Funny, when I was flying I wore a little medicine
pouch that I have. If it weren't so bulky I'd wear it inside
my shirt, but it would look like I have a really interesting
growth if I did that. Anyway, a lady noticed it and asked if
it were religious. I was just stumped. I must have looked like
a fish out of water. I felt myself just sort of opening my mouth
and then closing it, and then opening it again. Finally, I said,
"It's spiritual, but not really religious. It's not like
a Presbyterian pouch." Thank goodness, she didn't think
I was being sarcastic. I don't think I looked smart enough to
be sarcastic after my fish imitation. Anyway, she was satisfied
with the answer and chuckled. Funny how the world will help
us figure out how we fit this into ourselves.
CinnamonMoon:
Awwwww
good replies Minna! Yes it is funny how there's a way for things
to be accepted today that weren't quite like that even a few
years ago. Evolutionary raising of consciousness is helping
a lot of people over those hurdles. Good for you!
StarSister:
I'm
really enjoying this thread. Thanks everyone. Minna, you are
so funny, you always give me a giggle and a boost and I really
liked your way of answering "are you a shaman?" In
love and gratitude.
StarryNight:
I've
come to realize more about what has been bothering me about
the concept of defining shamanism by terminology. I appreciate
the distinction that is trying to be drawn, but there is something
that still doesn’t sit well with me. Cinn, I appreciated
your comments. I spent the weekend with a group of people. The
focus was utilizing our imagination, that 98% of our brain that
warehouses, organizes and retrieves information, by settling
within ourselves and softening our hard focus and allowing ourselves
to direct our attention on the beauty found within all of our
senses. A few there clearly sought to be "shamans"
and they made clear their intentions were for their own personal
growth. Why was the title so important to them? I was very impressed
by the teacher in all of her ways. Spirit was clearly present
with her.
Toward
the end of the weekend I still had not committed to more instruction
and the teacher specifically sought me out to impress upon me
how much she enjoyed working with me. The weekend was transformative
in ways I find that I can't clearly articulate. When I looked
at myself in the mirror on the 3rd morning of the instruction,
I saw a different person. My eyes were bloodshot even after
a good long sleep. My energy was unquestionably different. I
didn't recognize who I was. I cried – the release was a
good, pleasurable release. I looked deep into my own eyes and
saw the changes within me. It was scary. But, I embraced the
change, for it is something I wanted – to be more clear
and confident in my direct knowing. My weekend was incredible.
It was a wholly enriching experience. By the 3rd day I realized
that I was so tired of hearing about how determined and in awe
those few about being a "Shaman." They desperately
wanted the title to own. I told the teacher that I want to grow
into and with my experiences, and that the title isn't important
to me. I want to utilize what I’m learning in the lives
of those that I touch so that I touch them with love, compassion
and so that Spirit may speak through me if that is what is to
be done. The title isn’t important. For me it is a way
of living, a way of experiencing, a way of trusting and a way
of loving. A title doesn’t define me. I’m not sure
where that puts me on any scale or within any designation….and
does it really matter? Not to me. At least not now. All I know
(and it isn’t much at all) is that this is how I live my
life. It is who I am. I do the best I can. Wow. I said a mouthful
for not know what I was going to end up saying!
WolfScout:
but what you said
covers what most starting out on any path says and feels. the
excitement of the new awakening, the uncertainty ..., the willingness
to learn, the openness to new thoughts... Sometimes it's not
enough to want; but to be pushed from within is much better.
and it takes a long time for someone to amass the knowledge
to be called shaman. is different than simply walking the path.
This one word has so many levels and meanings within it. IMO
FireStarter/Karen:
Minna, your sense of
humor strikes a chord within me....I like it! Thanks! Crow....thank
you so much for this reading. I really like the site, a lot.
SwanFeather:
Oh,
Starry! I'm so happy for you! Seems this weekend was postponed
for just the right time, yes? You listened to what you felt
was right and Bingo! It was! HAH! It sounds like you saw your
Self with new eyes...no wonder they were bloodshot! And your
new vision showed those around you in a new light as well! You
were at the optimum time for the tools this teacher had to offer
you. But when that happens it never seems to be quite what we
expected. Finding our own feet on our own individual, unique
path never really comes with a label of any sort, IMHO. That's
because
there just
doesn't need to be one...there can't be one. We are all so amazingly
special and there is no one-size-fits all. The labels are for
others who need to put things in a category for reference and
understanding until their own eyes are opened to where their
feet are. You weren't becoming "something" you are
becoming StarryNight and that's altogether different! Wooohooo!
StarryNight:
Wolfscout,
I am not grasping what you are saying. I am under the cloud
of a heavy migraine, so I'm kind of foggy. I'd like to understand
what you are saying, would you mind expanding on it?
Unregistered Guest:
Thank you for giving us
this post. I've known of the difference, and it was great to
have some points laid out. I was thinking of those who would
strive to have a title... Some of the most inspirational moments,
the most helpful moments of my life have been given through
words of people without titles. One such moment, I was in one
of the lowest places in my life. A time where I felt that there
was no love for me, either from others or myself. I felt that
perhaps, mine was a life not worth living. And on that day,
a family friend visited, and simply told me that she cared for
me, and that my life was worth living.... And I was forever
changed by it. I don't think it bad to have titles. But sometimes
I wonder if individuals “keep their eyes on the prize",
and get tunnel vision. If perhaps they can lose out on such
simple words and lessons.
StarryNight:
I
had a rather long post prepared explaining the basis of my reaction,
and intentionally deleted it. There is no need for that. Crow,
as you proposed to me, I have indeed really come to own an aspect
of myself through my reflection on my reaction to this article.
I thank you posters for that. Many of your posts have touched
those soft well protected places within me, breaking through
barriers within me that I erected in part to avoid free uninhibited
movement, to remain distant, and to fight for position about
who I am and what is happening to me. I embrace and treasure
all the beautiful changes within me and the expansiveness with
which I feel life. I feel Spirit weave in and through everything,
and I follow it as best I can creating my own tapestry as I
bring Spirit with me as I walk from place to place. As you so
eloquently said, Bear, I too have deep and immense respect for
Indigenous People for who have kept and fostered connection
to Spirit, and I honor those teachers willing to help us cultivate
a connection with Spirit. May we all be willing to do the same
in the ways we know how, as we are guided to do. StarBearWalking,
Crow Woman, Cinnamon, and SwanFeather, your comments in this
thread have been especially meaningful to me as I walk through
this. And, Minna you summed it up well and it could not apply
better for me right now.
“Funny
how the world will help us figure out how we fit this into ourselves.”
StarBearWalking:
Starry night wrote this
on the 11th: “For me it is a way of living, a way of experiencing,
a way of trusting and a way of loving. A title doesn’t
define me. I’m not sure where that puts me on any scale
or within any designation….and does it really matter? Not
to me.”
Very well said I'm not big on titles,
I have a hard time with names, but I do usually remember
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Libraries
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INDEX
Page 3
(Main Section, Medicine Wheel, Native Languages &
Nations, Symbology)
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INDEX
Page 5
(Sacred Feminine & Masculine, Stones & Minerals)
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Copyright: Cinnamon Moon & River WildFire Moon (Founders.)
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